Cait: Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of The Born To Rise Podcast. I am so excited to welcome our amazing guest Hannah. Hannah, thank you so much for being here.

Hannah: Hi. Yeah, I’m so stoked to be on here talking to you. So thanks for having me.

Cait: Oh, my God, it’s so good. I have just been so excited about this interview. And there are so many things that I want to ask you about. But for people who don’t know you and are living under a rock, tell us who you are and what you do.

Hannah: Yeah, so I am a business coach and mentor working primarily with women in wellness. So that ranges from coaches to yoga teachers, even to studios, meditation studios, physiotherapists, everything under the sun. And whilst I love talking about empowerment, sales, money mindset, my jam is really Instagram and showing up in that space with confidence and with authenticity. So that’s what I do.

Cait: I love it so much, and you absolutely are the Instagram queen. One of the things that I’m obsessed with watching your reels. We’ll talk about Reels in a minute. But one of the things that I hear all the time from clients that is really challenging for people to get their head around is understanding Instagram as a community platform. A place to build up an audience, it’s a place to actually grow, not just your following, and I’m sure that phrase annoys the fuck out of you. 

How do we turn that conversation into growing a community because you have what, 50, 60,000 followers on Instagram followers? I’m doing that in air quotes that no one can see on Instagram, but you have a genuine community. You have people there who just live for when you post. That takes some work to get to that place. So talk to us about the mindset behind cultivating community versus chasing after followers.

The mindset behind cultivating community vs. chasing after followers

Hannah: That’s such a great question. And I have such a good analogy. And I feel like you’re the analogy queen. So you totally love this. But it’s like, so many of us do want to chase, to have the following, right? As you said, how do I grow this following? And I think if we switch to the word audience because following an audience is interchanging when it comes to Instagram. 

But if we’re thinking about the word audience, as somebody who used to do theater, audience, to me is when you’re still on stage, you’re the person that everyone’s watching. And if you are somebody who’s done theater or drama, when you’re on stage, the lights are so bright in your face, that there’s no way that you can see anybody who’s on stage. You’re the main person here, and the audience kind of doesn’t matter. 

Whereas I think if we can switch to this idea of a community where everybody is on the same playing field, everyone’s voice is valid and needs to be heard. And it’s almost like I want you to think, for those of you listening who are business owners, or thinking about it, I want you to think about your being the MC at a town hall meeting. You still have to have the confidence to hold the microphone and lead the conversation. But you’re not afraid to pass the mic over. 

I think when you’re a brand new entrepreneur, vanity metrics can really get in your mind. So whether it’s Instagram numbers, or whether it’s a 10k month, and you talk about the sales that you hit because I think it’s empowering. But at the same time, those aren’t the things that really count. 

So if you can switch your mindset to not worrying about the number, and worrying more about the quality of the connections that you have, and really encouraging meaningful engagement as well. If I can put that into a really tangible thing if you are wanting to grow your Instagram community, put question boxes in your stories and have your call to action at the end of your post saying like, I want to hear from you. 

Because it’s a big deal for people to actually send you a DM or reply to a question box or even like vote in a poll. So I think, tell people that you want to hear from them. Really show it and make sure that when they do communicate with you that you reply and show that you care. And I think that that idea of switching the mindset to understanding that it’s not actually just you by yourself on a stage, it’s your entire community that has helped me

Cait: That is such an incredible answer. And I’m obsessed with this because last night, Toby and I just went to the theater actually here in Australia. COVID like not really a thing right now. And we still wear masks, but it was the opening night of Hamilton and I swear it was freaking incredible. But at the end when all the actors hold hands and bow and the lights and standing ovation, the place was going wild. I really wanted Hamilton to look at me, I was like, why is he not making eye contact with me? But I’m like, Oh, right, because you can’t see shit. 

It’s such a good analogy of the difference between treating your audience like an audience or treating them like they’re in the room. And being that MC it’s such a great, great analogy, right? Because you do have to kind of hold the vibe and keep the energy of the room but you’re going to play off of who else is there. 

The way that you hold this container is not just holding on to a script, it’s you reading energy in the room and playing off with the community that you have there. So it’s so, so helpful and so valuable as well, the tips you shared of genuinely how to start to cultivate that community and respond to people and it sounds so basic when we say it out loud, but we forget it. If people respond to you, you say you want engagement, you gotta engage back with them. 

How To Grow An Instagram Account

Is that something that you find feels really hard for people but they’re not coming back to that really important principle? When people ask you, how did you grow your following to your audience, your community to 60,000 people, what do you say to them?

Hannah: I say that it took a really long time. I think just to put it into perspective for people, I’ve been growing my Instagram account for about seven years. And I actually started out as just a diary from when I had some serious knee surgeries, and I couldn’t walk, it was my outlet. And I would just share pictures of my food. It was very much more a fitness inspirational account to show that even if you’re injured, you can still work out. I was just doing upper body stuff. 

And then it shifted and changed with me. And I think if you’re coming to the table, and you’re growing a new Instagram account  –I can’t even imagine coming to Instagram now as a business, because I’ve had seven years of practice. That’s one of the main reasons why I’m able to show up in the way that I am because I’ve been doing it for that long. 

So the way that I’ve grown, it is with a lot of time with a lot of mistakes with a lot of breaks with a lot of pivots and evolutions. I pivoted just over a year ago. And then when I finally found what it was that I really am put on this planet to do, without a doubt, this year has been the year that everything’s expanded even more exponentially. 

I think just time, patience, experimentation, and really listening. If you’re listening to this podcast, and you have 1000 followers right now, if I gave you 60,000 followers, you wouldn’t be able to deal with the number of comments and the number of DMs. So just be grateful that you can have this processing, take it step by step and almost a climatized slowly. Because I’ll be honest with you, my Instagram, not in a big-headed way, but it is on fire. People messaged me all the time. But I’ve been doing this for so long that it’s my nervous system can cope with it very, very well. So I think it’s just patience. And climatization as well.

Cait: I think that’s such a great reminder because it’s so tempting. And we see this all the time in the online business space. We want the quick wins, we want the flashy numbers, we want the 50, 60k followers, we want the whatever k months, and it’s just so helpful, and I appreciate you being so real. Of like, hey, it took me seven years to get to this point. 

Are most of us willing to wait for more than a couple of months working something and before we give up and say, Oh, I want instant results. So that’s so so valuable to know that true mastery and expertise. It’s something that takes time. And it’s not to say someone couldn’t grow a community in a quicker timeframe. But to know those really powerful things take time, and you have stuck with it in such a powerful way and have so much to show for it now. I think that’s so, so powerful. 

I really wanted to ask you this question. I’m jumping around a little bit. But one of the things that I am hearing from clients, most of my clients use Instagram, too, as a business tool. Again, Reels is something that I want to come back to in a second. But one of the things that I hear a lot from clients is the algorithm is just all over the place. Like sometimes my story views are through the roof, and then other days, they’re super low. And I’m just getting so damn pissed at this algorithm. 

How To Handle The Algorithm Changes

So my question is kind of one part, strategy and tactical. But the other part is around how you coach your clients and support your clients when they have this thing of almost outsourcing their power to the algorithm. They’re like, well, no one’s seeing my story views. So why bother showing up anyway? What do you say to somebody when they’re railing against the algorithm?

Hannah: That’s a great question. Everyone hates the algorithm, the poor algorithm. It is man-made, right? It’s only an algorithm, and only acts the way that it acts because an equation was put into a computer or a formula was put into a computer. And it tracks how we utilize it. The artificial intelligence that runs Instagram is that. It is an intelligence and therefore it follows us. And it follows the mass movement of human beings. And I think what we have to remember is just as in life, there are peaks and troughs with everything. There are always going to be ups and downs when it comes to any engagement. 

Like right now. I mean, I’m thinking about more of the UK because we’re coming out of our second lockdown, but Therefore, I believe that we’re going to see quite a big dip in engagement because people are going to finally be going outside and hanging out with their loved ones and doing things. Whereas January time, we always see a massive, massive hike because people want to have their new resolutions or to commit to that new business plan or whatever it is. 

So I think from a strategic point of view, just remember that everybody is having these waves of engagement and up and downs. Also, I really say this from a very privileged, white women point of view. But sometimes if people aren’t engaging, maybe you just need to shift your content. Sometimes it might just not be speaking to your clients anymore or to the people that are following you. 

So I would look at a dip in engagement as an opportunity, just with any failure. And I say that in quotation marks to see what’s happening. See what’s going on why isn’t this working? Why is this happening and just be really inquisitive about it. And just remember that, whilst Instagram is a fantastic way to market your business, there are so many other types of content  marketing. And content marketing is just one form of marketing. So don’t put all of your eggs in just in the Instagram basket. But at the same time, there will be ups and downs and don’t latch yourself onto those oxytocin hits. 

It’s so funny that you asked that because literally right now, one of my posts from this morning is going viral, like just from the statistics I can see. And I think if this was me two years ago, this would have been the most exciting thing to ever happen. And then the next post that comes out, I would expect it to do the same. Whereas now I can be like, that’s really cool. I clearly hit the nail on the head and post something that really resonated with people today. But tomorrow, the post probably isn’t going to do as well. And that’s fine because I have other key performance indicators or KPIs in my business that tell me that things are going well. 

So just to round up those many answers. Remember that the algorithm copies what the humans are doing. So just switch that mindset. Don’t hate the algorithm. It’s doing what it’s doing because we’re doing what we’re doing, and it will come back again. Now also, take a little bit of a break, the algorithm sometimes does like you to go away for 24 hours. And then it will think No, no, no, I want you to come back. That’s what Instagram wants, right? Instagram wants you to stay on the app. So if you do see a dip in your engagement, maybe just take 24 hours off, let it sit, come back and see what happens.

Cait: I love that so much. And I think that something that you said there that is so relevant. When it’s happening to us, we think oh, why is my engagement going down? Why is my thing dipping?Hannah’s surely has the most consistent engagement or story views or whatever, like someone who’s quote, unquote, made it on Instagram, they never have to deal with this shit. 

And it’s like, all of us are playing on the same platform. All of us are going through the exact same thing. And I really loved what you said about not making that mean anything about future engagement, and what gets to be possible. One of the things that I say to clients all the time is the algorithm does not control your launch, you control your launch. The algorithm doesn’t control your sales, you control your sales. 

I hear this a lot of the time and I’m curious for you, what you see with your clients because I know that you are such a legend at really working with people around getting their Instagram firing for business and making it not only bring in leads but bring in sales. What do you say when somebody is likem well Instagram just isn’t for me? Or like, Oh, I just I’m not getting the traction that I want. The right people aren’t in my audience. What are your responses to that? 

I’m sure you’ve had this as well, Hannah, that people really do fall out of the sky. People talk about business owners or talk about XYZ came in from nowhere. And then the other people who are surgically watching who’s watching their stories and saying well, I don’t have anyone new. It’s just my existing audience. What would you say to those people? I know in the situations that I’ve been in, there are people who are watching. You’re not seeing them, they might not be watching every single story, every single day. You check who’s watching but if you keep going, I guarantee you there are people who are going to quote unquote, fall out of the sky, aka follow your content and convert because of your content.

Hannah: I think one of the most important things to remember here is that whilst we’re so aware of our content and everything that we put out, the average person on Instagram as a consumer probably follows at least 300 people.That’s a lot of content for people to be getting through every single day. And every post that you share won’t always be bumped up to that feed. 

And I’ll answer your main question first. What would I say to the people who say, oh, Instagram? Not for me, it’s not working, I think with any failure to launch, whether that’s with a natural product launch, or whether that’s with Instagram, why did it not happen? And the analogy that I use for this is, NASA building a spaceship. They’re going to build a spaceship. They’re going to launch are going to say, 10 987, rah, rah 321. And if the spaceship doesn’t launch after one, they’re not going to say, you know what, guys? This spaceship stuff is not for us, we’re going to go home. No, they’re going to take time and they’re going to examine why the spaceship didn’t take off. And then they’ll go back again. And hopefully next time it takes off. 

So I think with Instagram, it’s a really similar thing. If it’s not taking off, why? And there could be a whole number of reasons as to why that is happening. There are so many finite details that go into whether a post as well or not. Length of captions, whether you’re using the magic marketing words. Are you writing a diary entry? I know that you talk about the length of captions all the time, like don’t go and say read more in the comments because not many people are going to go read the rest of the comments. And hashtag use is a really big one as well. I think quite a lot of people don’t fully understand.

How To Use Hashtags

Cait : Yeah. I’m curious about hashtags so I’m really glad that you brought that up, because I have clients ask me that all the time. And to be honest, I don’t really fucking know. Tell us about hashtags. Is it literally as simple as putting hashtag boss babe on every single post? How do we use hashtags?

Hannah: This could be a whole podcast episode. So on Instagram, we’re really trying to make ourselves searchable. Now if you go to the search bar of your Instagram, they’re now giving you prompts to search for. They’re trying to make a word like Google. Yeah, they’re trying to make hashtags more like Google keywords. So I think first of all really think about the types of things your ideal clients are going to be searching for. Will they be searching for hashtag boss babes? Will they be searching for a business coach in Australia, will they be searching for how to use hashtags? Those kinds of things. 

And you want your hashtags to be quite specific to the individual posts, which is why when it comes to planning, having more content pillars, so a certain number of themes that you would post about just to make your life easier. And then maybe you have five hashtags, which you probably use with every post, because they kind of cover all of your bases. 

So really thinking about those hashtags, being very niche to what it is that you’re doing. And then there are different types of hashtags as what you would call an industry hashtag, which would be business coach. And then there’ll be a community hashtag, and one that I can think of off the top of my head would be Gabby Bernstein, spirit junkies, that would be a community hashtag, like a hashtag that people who follow Gabby Bernstein, or that movement would use. Or black girl magic would be a community hashtag for black women, for example. And then there’s the How to hashtags. So if you want a vegan roast dinner recipe, maybe the hashtag would be vegan roast dinner. 

Trying to get an even number of all of those three, and really thinking, what is somebody wanting to search to find this? And the final thing, when it comes to hashtags, is looking at the top feed. So if you go to say hashtag boss babe, you’ll see the top feed, and a recent feed. And the top feed is basically the algorithm has picked all of the best engagement, and posts, it also looks aesthetically similar. And they put them in this top feed. So if you go to this hashtag, and it’s all like pale pinks and purples, but your content is red, the likelihood of you being pushed to the top feed is lower, based on that as an example. So it’s a bit of a minefield, it’s a lot of things to think about. I’ve got a whole Google Sheet of aesthetic of the feed , the average number of likes and the top hashtag. What kind of post is it? What are the hashtags they’re using? Like, I would dedicate maybe an hour or two a month to really audit your hashtags. That’s if you really do want to grow. And if you really do want to reach the right people, but it’s a lot.

Cait: For sure, for sure. That’s so helpful, though, and so interesting. And I didn’t know that about Instagram making hashtags more like Google search, but I hear that a lot. I’ve actually had people reach out to me who say I literally typed in business coach on Instagram and you were the first person that came up and I’m like you doing good. But I think that’s because I have a business coach in my title. It’s vertical bar business coach.

Okay, do you have any free resources, anything we can link in the bio or any paid resources, anything for people who want to know more on hashtags?

Hannah: Yeah, I do have a link in bio. I’m retracting Instagram, Link in bio. Link in show notes. I’m planning a hashtag specific workshop. So I don’t know when this podcast will come out. But it’s going to be in April. I haven’t set myself a date yet but it’s the end of April. So maybe I’ll send you the link either when it’s coming up to be able to purchase the replay. And then there is a pre recorded Instagram workshop that I have available on my website. Which is literally like seven hours of Instagram. So if you want to become an absolute Instagram boss, that is your workshop

Cait: Great. Oh my God, I love it. Well, you should because you’re so thorough and so amazing. So this is another question and I really want you to brag talking about this, but I have so many people who are like, who do I hire to help me grow my Instagram? I wanted to hire this agency. But they did follow unfollow, and then they got me blocked. I mean, I’m sure you’ve heard these horror stories. Or these freaking Kylie Jenner giveaways, where you pay 20 grand and you get 200,000 new followers, but they’re all like, they don’t speak English. And they’re all just obsessed with Kylie Jenner. 

Hiring Support For Your Social Media

How do you recommend somebody who’s wanting to hire support to grow their Instagram? What are the kinds of things we need to be thinking about? Should we even be outsourcing our socials to somebody else?

Hannah: Yeah, I, as somebody who’s grown multiple social media accounts, because that’s what I did. Before I went solely into business coaching. As a social media manager, it’s very much about really creating valuable content that your audience loves. It’s important to say here that what you think your audience will love, and what your audience is actually going to love might not align. And I think you can only discover this through trial and error. 

There’s one account that I work with, and the type of posts, when it’s the back of a lorry and someone’s digitally put a quote over it or something, or a wall in New York City, those types of posts, for some reason, always get like 700, 800 likes. So I think when you notice those things within your own content, when you notice inverted commas, viral posts, like the one that I’ve shared today, always check what those are and try to recreate those. 

Should you hire somebody to run your social media content? That’s a really difficult question. To answer without knowing who you specifically are. I personally don’t because it really is my zone of genius. And I fully just believe that somebody wouldn’t be able to do what I can do. Do I have my VA help me with market research and to see what my competitors and my expanders are doing? Absolutely. 

But when you’re hiring somebody, when you’re hiring a VA or whoever it might be, what are the tasks that would be better off being done by somebody else? And what are the tasks that actually are going to make your business better by you doing them? So if you’re somebody who really doesn’t identify as being creative, and you could hire somebody to do a fantastic job, like when brands hired me, I think Go for it. Just make sure that they’re not going to be doing any of those really sleazy what I would call unethical growth tactics, because it’s really not about the numbers, right? 

It’s about the Instagrams. It’s a game of quality over quantity, which we really forget, because we do see the Kylie Jenner’s of the world having millions of followers and being super successful –if that’s what you define being successful as. But you could have a following of 1000. And if they engage quite well, imagine making 1000 sales of 1000 pounds, that’s a lot of money and think people can come to my page and see 60,000 and assume that all of those 60,000 are engaging. It’s really not the case. Some of my posts only ever get 300, 400 likes, like my audience isn’t super engaged, because it’s been growing for so long. So it’s forgetting about the numbers, but yeah, just know sleazy growth tactics. And if you love creating your Instagram content, maybe you should do it, and maybe somebody else can schedule it for you so that at least the admin side of things is removed for you.

Cait: I love that. That was such a thorough answer. Really saying in your zone of genius, and the big thing there is making sure that people can still feel you on the other side. And I think that, especially for business owners as they scale, I see this a lot. I just want to get out of day to day operations. And when people ask me Hey, what are you doing in your business? I’m like, I serve my clients, I serve my students, and I create content. And I think that you echo that in such a beautiful way. Or maybe I’m echoing you. How important it is for people who are coming into your space to actually feel you on the other side?

Why People Who Come Into Your Space Need To Feel You

Hannah: 100% like, one of one of the reasons I feel like I’m having the success that I’m having is because I show up, and I am 100% me, and I’ve only just been able to discover who I really am in an online way in the last year. It really is. 

I was living in Bali this time last year, and there was something about not being aligned with where I was living and the relationship that I was in and the work that I was doing that just translated to me not being me online. Whereas I think when you just let go of everything, and you show up and you’re vulnerable, obviously within your own boundaries. You don’t have to share absolutely everything on Instagram. But I think vulnerability, and just being who you are without apology, but also being open to constructive feedback is the key to success on Instagram. 

You would be surprised when I share a picture of me in bed and people are like, Oh my god, you’ve got the same bedding as me. Oh, that’s so funny. Is it from IKEA? And I’m like, yeah, it’s from IKEA. And then they say that’s amazing. And you just immediately feel connected by something so simple. I think people want to see humanity. We’re done with the massive conglomerates. We don’t want to buy from these massive businesses anymore. We want to support small businesses and working with service based people, working with your coaches you want to see what they’re doing. 

Cait: You want to see what their life is like 100% and that behind the scenes is so so valuable in order to do that. When I search, Instagram is certainly my favorite platform to do that. But I don’t know if there is another platform that lets us get that behind the scenes and really feel like we get to know people like Instagram does. 

Maybe YouTube but youtube youtube is still quite curated and quite finessed whereas Instagram as you say, you can have Instagram stories. You should really show this side of you and Reels as well, because you can be quite funny with them. 

Stories is really where you share, as Cait said, Those BTS shorts and if we’re going on a date night, maybe you want to share it or if there’s a new coffee that you love sharing that like I shared this vegan cheese platter that me and my friend had last night, and so many people have messaged me about it. Because people want to know that stuff. Like you might not think of yourself as an influencer. But if you have 1000 followers, imagine yourself in a room in front of 1000 people, a lot of human beings.

How Showing Up Online Can Change People’s Lives

Cait: Oh my god, I have to share this with you because you’re so right. And I literally remember being in hotel quarantine and waking up and getting this message and crying and telling Toby about it. But I had a woman who was in a similar situation. Her partner was Australian and she was either American or European. I can’t remember and they were like trying to navigate coming back to Australia and making that work because there’s all these quarantine laws anyway. I just told her how I did it, like the specific visa waiver thing that I did and looking into that, and she was like, Oh, we tried to do that. And I have a young infant like you. I’ve got a seven month old or something and we’ve been separated and he’s in Australia and I’m here with my baby. And it’s just been so hard. And I just responded like, oh, this is what I’m on. And this is what we did. Like I’m just wishing you so much luck or something and she messaged me when we had gotten to Australia already. 

And she’s like Cait, I just wanted to let you know myself and my child we just got our visas approved and I would have never looked into it if you didn’t respond to me and I just it was one of these moments of, sure I’m on there sharing business tips all the time, but just that human connection how engaging back with somebody literally can can change somebody’s life. It’s actually true and those comments were back whether someone’s like just starting to be vegan and like wow, you can have a cheese plate Even if you’re vegan, or you’re talking about a visa or a certain pair of pumps. But I had another question, what breast pumps do you use? After a recent reel that I did, and there are so many connecting forces. We don’t think about that a lot. The humaneness and the impacts that the platform provides.

Hannah: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s what’s going to differentiate you from the people that don’t engage. And I think a really good example that I can use is that I share a lot about my story of having genital herpes and being STI positive. And it’s really nothing to do with business. It’s just something that I felt empowered to share, like two years ago, online, and even to this day, I will have people message me that they’ve just got it or they don’t know how to tell their partner. 

And I tried to really set boundaries with myself and not reply to them every single day. But when I’m in the right headspace, to be supportive, as you say, you can literally change someone’s life by just being open to share. And it doesn’t have to be a multitude of people. And it doesn’t even have to be something really meaningful like talking about herpes. It could literally just be a post that you post. And you might get that one message that says, just the way that you explain that or the way that you worded that literally, it was like the light bulb went off. And I can’t believe that I’ve never seen this before. And that’s what makes all the fear of showing up online and the fear of internet trolls and stuff. That’s what makes it worth it. Because you can actually change someone’s life or something as simple as writing a post. Like you really can.

Cait: I love that so much. This is so good and so juicy. For the people who think all social media is just really shallow. I think what you’re speaking to is evidence of the contrary. It literally can change somebody’s life and build so many amazing connections as well.

Hannah: Totally. So many of my friends are friends because of my Instagram.

How To Use Reels For Your Business

Cait: Totally. I love that. So, so much. All right. And I really want to ask you about Reels because I just had a coaching call literally right before this. And the girls were like, I just don’t know how to do Reels. And I’m like, I feel like I’ve just figured it out. Like 30 seconds, not 15. How to add multiple slides and get the music. So I’m feeling on top of the world right now. But I am esuper green and noob compared to all the skills that you’re dropping on Reels. So can you tell us what’s the deal with reels? How to  on Reels 101 for somebody who is not yet really using them for their business and feels kind of intimidated about where to start?

Hannah: Yes, totally. So just to give you some context, every time there’s any app that is successful, Instagram sees it taking some of their clients away. With Snapchat as example. Instagram will invest millions of dollars to create something similar. So Instagram stories were Instagram’s answers to Snapchat. And now Reels are Instagrams answer to Tik Tok.

So it’s really short form videos, and Tik Tok is more entertaining. Whereas I feel like with Instagram, what we see is many accounts now being entertaining, but also providing really quick short snippets of value. And it’s great because sometimes you could post a five minute IGTV but people don’t really watch five minute videos, right? 

This is a way for you to get across one small topic. One really teeny tiny piece of information, hitting one tiny pain point in a really quick and sometimes fun way. And I know that many people don’t like the pointy element of Tik Tok. I think that’s one thing that makes people feel uncomfortable with the idea that you have to do that thing where you’re pointing in time with the music and then the words come up and then they go away. I mean, that is obviously one way to do it. 

But I really feel like using Reels as a way to really educate your audience. It’s such a fantastic thing to do. And I would use your voice. I think it’s such a great way to show your audience who you are and speak to them. And if you are struggling with ideas, maybe stick to three tips or three ways to or three things to do in the morning to have a successful positive day. Keep it really simple. 

I do have a free one hour workshop inside my facebook group just on Reels where I get my phone up on the screen and I really talk you through how to do them. It’s kind of hard with the the logistics of the podcast episode but There are so many tutorials online that if you are nervous about how to film them, just take some time to go and learn. 

Because Instagram spent so much money on Reels. It wants you to use it, and it will reward you with engagement and followers.  It’s one of the fastest ways to grow a following right now. Do reels. Even if it’s one a week, I went through a phase of doing one a day and it blew my engagement out of the water, it was crazy. Just keep it simple. It doesn’t have to be fancy. You don’t have to do a dance. 

What does your ideal client really want to learn? Just say it to them in a simple way. If you’re more of a meditation, spiritual person, and maybe even just sitting in a meditation pose, and the words appear on the screen, like there are so many different ways that you can do it. And I think we see examples of Reels online and assume that that’s how we have to show up. 

Cait, you’re such a good example. You’re just creating Reels that feel good for you in the moment and that speak to your ideal client. You’re not trying to be anybody else. So what type of Reels do you love watching? What type of Reels do you find informative? Curate a group together real fast. I always save stuff that I find informative or inspiring, even if it’s just to mute use the music later. But don’t put too much pressure on it.

Cait: Oh, so good. And we will definitely put that link in the show notes so that anyone who wants a tutorial on Reels for free can come learn from you.

Hannah: The Empowered Entrepreneur Society. So I will for sure give you the the link because it’s Yeah, it’s just 60 minutes of pure real gold in my opinion.

Cait: That’s so good. That’s so helpful. So yeah, we will definitely put that in there. And I love that so much. I yeah, I just had to get over the like, Oh, this is so hard, or there’s all these different ways to do it. And now I literally remember making a Reel when we were in hotel quarantine. And I was folding laundry on the bed with Ella and I’m like, Alright, she’s been kind of good. I could probably film something right now. And then I’m like, Okay, I’m in a hotel room. I can’t leave. I haven’t showered yet. But this is life. So let me just film what’s actually happening and protocol sound on it. And like, there we go.

Now the best ones that I remember doing one with like a glass of red wine. And I literally remember that. It’s nothing to do with my ideal client, but it was a hair. And Merry Christmas one. Yeah, he was like, it’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas. And my mom hadn’t put any Christmas decorations up. And it was like Christmas Eve. And I was like, No, it’s not. And he was like, I can’t remember the words, but I was proud.

Cait: I remember that one. It’s hilarious. So so funny. Oh, my God, this has been such an informative and just illuminating conversation. I’m so so grateful. I want to ask you one question that I asked everyone who comes on this show, which is really, obviously this show is dedicated to supporting women to rise in business. And I think that when we look at super successful entrepreneurs, like yourself, who’ve just absolutely mastered their trade in their thing, it can become really easy to do the like, Oh, well, Hannah’s just had it made from the beginning. And I’m curious if there has been an either an experience in your entrepreneurial journey or a moment that you felt like, Fuck, man, I don’t know if I want to keep going and how you rose up from that?

Hannah: Absolutely, there are so many. My journey has had lots of downs, I’ll be perfectly honest with you. I’ve had a lot of struggles with my physical body with my knee and my surgeries like touchwood, clinical depression. So I think it’s very easy, as you say, to just assume that everything’s been all golden forever. 

I would say that this time last year, like I was on the brink of having a break, I was on the brink of a breakup from like a relationship that I really cared about, COVID was happening. I lost all of my social media clients. And I was kind of mid pivot. So I didn’t really have any one to one clients for social media or for business. I was literally making 500 pounds a month, which is about 600 US dollars. And I had to borrow money from my parents to fly home. I was terrified to fly home in the middle of a pandemic. I didn’t know what was going on with my relationship. And my ex is super supportive, but he didn’t get the coach thing. 

So I think a year ago, I was literally making barely any money. I was paying rent on a villa that I could not go home to. I just didn’t have any clients. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was brand new to business coaching. I was a transformational coach before and I was just lying on the sofa and my mom’s most of the day like watching movies. I was in quite a low space. But I just knuckle down. And I just, it took a long time. It’s only been in the last month that financially things have been great for me since about May. 

But my happiness wise, it’s only been the last month I’ve literally just moved into my first ever place by myself, I can’t believe I can afford it. I’m finally not living on my mom’s, which I have been for the last year. And I’m actually happy. So I think that you can and not that I haven’t been happy all year. But it’s been really tough living at my mom’s working from her living room, having client calls when I can hear her having hard client calls upstairs. It’s been really, really tough. 

A massive breakup in May last year, and if it weren’t for any of those things, and if it weren’t for COVID, I really wouldn’t have just knuckle down that my business saved me because it gave me something to focus on. And I think that’s one of the reasons why I’ve been so successful. Because I literally didn’t have a social life for the last year. I literally sat at home from 8am until about 7pm when my mom would tell me to get off the laptop. And that’s how it happened. And I wouldn’t say that everyone should do that. But the darkness and the difficulty brought this and I’m like, so grateful.

Cait: So beautiful. And thank you for being so real in your answer. And yeah I think the entire world hasn’t had much of a social life. But you’re so right, and that’s such a blessing of this time and of having an online business to really pour ourselves into while we can’t be in person and gathered in person in most parts of the world. So, so powerful. And I thank you so much for being so open and inspiring and your journey. The last question I always love to ask everyone who comes on the show is just your words of advice for an entrepreneur who is rising up who’s building her Empire who’s wanting to use Instagram to really grow and any any words of advice that you would share with her?

Hannah: Yes, I have this thing that I’ve labeled the five C’s. So I’ll give you the five C’s that I believe can lead to success, clarity, knowing who you’re here to serve. And also knowing the legacy that you want to leave behind like, your grandkids might come and look at your Instagram one day. That’s powerful. clarity, consistency, continue to show up even when it’s hard, build your community. Create your content. And don’t be afraid to like curate as well. Don’t be afraid to look to other people for inspiration. Never copy. I think curation is key. So those would be my words of wisdom.

Cait: That’s so amazing. Thank you so so much, Hannah. And where can we follow along with you find you in all the places? Where are you at?

Hannah: Yes. And Instagrams my main place because it’s my fave. So @HannahRoseCluley. I also have a podcast called The Evolve and Empower podcast if you’re looking for another podcast to listen to on your lockdown walks or your unlocked down walks, depending on where you are. My Facebook group, The Empowered Entrepreneur Society.

Cait: I love it. We will put all of those links in the show notes. Thank you so so much for all of the value you shared today. So incredible.

Hannah: Thank you so much for having me. It’s such an honor and yeah, I’m so excited to hear this back.

Cait: So good. Thanks for listening everyone and we will see you next week.