Cait
Welcome to the Born to rise podcast, the show that celebrates the limitless power of women who say yes to their gifts and use them to build extraordinary lives and businesses.

Each month I’ll be interviewing world class women thought leaders, entrepreneurs and visionaries to uncover their expert tools, tips and wisdom on what it takes to claim your vision. Boldly go after it and elevate into your highest potential. I’m your host Kate Scudder, reminding you gorgeous that you were born to rise. Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of The Born to rise podcast. I’m your host Cait Scudder, and I am so excited for you to meet our guest today, Jill Stanton. Jill is the creator of millionaire Girls Club and the co founder of the brand’s wealthy course creator and screw the nine to five earner has been Josh’s slices of the Internet where they help course creators and coaches have bigger launches with less stress side note, they also make the best Facebook ads in the game world coined by Forbes as a destination for up and coming entrepreneurs. Well the course creator and screw the nine to five have inspired 10s of 1000s of entrepreneurs to build wildly profitable businesses and live lives of meaning and purpose when she’s not CEO and she can be found hanging with her husband Josh and their little guy Kai at their home in the Cayman Islands. Jill, welcome. I am so pumped to have you here.

Jill
Thank you so much for having me. I’m stoked to dive in. Also listening to a bio being read. I’m like, Oh, maybe I should make it more fun.

Cait
Oh, I think it’s so fun. I love it. And I think you have my full permission to say that we also make the best Facebook ads on the internet because literally every time I see an ad from you guys, I’m like I need to go make popcorn and just keep watching this because it’s so funny. You guys are hilarious.

Jill
We have some funny ones coming up that just mock so many things that happen in our space. I am so excited for it.

Cait
It’s so good. It’s my favorite is how big is it? I can’t remember what that was. So good

Jill
Course modules.

Cait
Oh my god. So good. Welcome. I’m so happy that you’re here. And just like yeah, we’ve been connecting on Instagram forever. And it’s just so good to finally be able to have a conversation with you and bring your magic and your wisdom to our listeners.

Jill
Well I’m so excited anytime that I get to just like bask in the energy of like really empowered confident high vibe women like called Take it all day. So I’m so stoked.

Cait
I love that so much so there may be some people listening who know you from screw the nine to five, some who know you from wealthy course creator tell us a little bit about and then some from millionaire Girls Clubs. So tell us a little bit about how you got started in your entrepreneurial journey. Like where did it all begin for you?

How Jill built her entrepreneurial career

Jill
It started like, I’m going to take us way back. And I’m going to try and make this distinct because anytime someone asked me this question, Josh always says, Do you want the long version or the short version. Meaning like if you want the long version asked me. So thanks, Josh. So my journey actually started like 2006. With web TV, like a web TV show before web TV was the thing. I’m talking the days of MySpace. And I started a web TV show for women in their 20s called 20 Something which was like a mix of sex and city and the view. And thank God, I did it when you could still delete shit off the internet. Because the stuff that I admitted, holy shit, I’m so happy it is not on the internet anymore. I don’t even think I could show my face on here. But so I got started with that. I did that for two years. Then I was moving to Australia to start a second one, which was a web travel show, which was getting sponsored by the Gold Coast tourism board and a bunch of different tour companies and stuff like this. And right before I was moving, I met Josh on a blind date set up by his previous partner and his now wife. And he was just like he wanted nothing to do with me truthfully, which I was like must have. And but he was an entrepreneur. He was building online businesses. He had a software he was doing like niche sites and all this kind of stuff. And I really learned from him and my business then kind of evolved into sharp right turn doing social media management for bars and restaurants because all of my 20s I was a bartender and my boss at the time as I was bartending while doing this show. Back when I was 28 He was like, Oh, you do a lot of social media stuff and a lot of video production would you do stuff for us? And I was like, let me just create a pitch for you. I pitched all three of his venues he accepted that was my first ever client and then I was like Oh btw I’m also no longer bartending ever again. So that was my first out and my first like profitable business. But I quickly realized, like, as you start working with clients, and I’m sure everyone here who has been, you know, in the game for long enough realizes that when you’re doing client work, you have like 15 little bosses, and it becomes just so overwhelming and so exhausting. And so right around the time I was hitting my capacity, which was like late 2011, Josh was also kind of feeling disenchanted with the business he had built with his partner, and we decided to start a site together. And I remember Josh saying, like, we should start a business together. And I was like, Yes. 100%, he was like, great. I think we should start an affiliate site. And I was like, sounds awesome. What’s an affiliate site, like, I have no clue. And I was so green. And he taught me everything from the ground up. And so that was really my first like, being thrown in the deep end writing. Like, we had a skincare review site that was monetized through affiliate links. And this was when you could like really crush Google SEO with like, guest posting and shit, like, really back in the day. And so we built that business until like, we had 30 different sites. And then people started asking us like, what are you guys doing for money, you’re not working anymore, like traveling? Are you drug dealers, and we were on our wedding week in Costa Rica, where you and I will be hanging. And it was the night before our wedding guests were arriving. And we were about to move to Thailand, because there was a big entrepreneur community there. And Josh was like, we should start a website to, you know, share our journey. And so we can stop answering the same questions. And I was like, I thought this idea, what should we call it? And thanks to Costa Rican rum, and a balcony, I was like, oh, we should call it screw the nine to five. And both of us were like, Oh my god. So we grabbed it sat on it, because we had never really built a personal brand. We had always had these like faceless sites. I mean, I shot videos and stuff. But other than that, like we didn’t use their real names, anything like that. And so we didn’t know what to do. And so that first year, which is 2013, we struggled like so hard. It was so rough for us. We launched a course no one bought it, I ugly cried. But it was also like the best lesson because it it taught us like the golden rule, like ask people what they want, like, what do you want to learn? Or what do you feel like you need right now. And from there we started, they responded, like, tell us how you make money with affiliate sites. And we’re like, oh, ding. And so we created our first course for affiliate marketing, pre sold that learn that lesson as well. And then from there, things started to roll for us, we had our first $2,500 launch, and then did another one. And then our first like, $8,000 webinar was the second third time we sold it and we’re like, oh, we are rich. And then we just continued on, like, we just kept creating offers 2015, I started a free Facebook group that really blew up and kind of put us on the map. And it’s just been a process of like, throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks, cutting what doesn’t and amping up What does. And it’s just brought us to this beautiful place of like, now we’ve kind of reimagined our brand, excuse me, our target customer. And what we’re here to do and and how we help people. That’s so it’s been a wild ride.

Cait
I love that. And I really appreciate that you said like it’s been such a journey of like throwing shit at the wall, seeing what sticks because, you know, you hear like, don’t do that. But actually, like, I don’t know, a single entrepreneur that hasn’t done that you kind of have to do that. That’s how we’re all figuring it out.

Jill
I don’t know at similar to you, I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been scrappy, at at least one point in their journey. And it’s so easy to compare yourself to be like, but this person like Marie Forleo is only ever launched one course. She crushed it the first time, you know, like no, she had coaching offers and masterminds and live events and mini courses and books and all that kind of stuff, you know, right?

Cait
And finally found the thing. Yeah, that stuck. And like here we are having this conversation like on the brink of 2022. And we’re talking about like stuff like nearly a decade ago for you and it’s taken like that long, but also like so much growth can happen in that time. So I just so appreciate you sharing that because I think that one of the things that I’m so passionate about I’m sure you get this a lot as well as just kind of debunking this myth of somebody comparing they’re like, you know, I’m just starting out with like this big empire that you’ve built like you started scrappy figuring it out brainstorming your name, you know, before your wedding. It’s just it’s so perfect. It just humanizes the whole thing.

Jill
Thank you. I have so much more to share. I love it. I sometimes think podcast interviews are like therapy for me, because I just get to like tell it like it really is. Put on the like stupid Instagram highlight reel.

Cait
Yes, it’s so funny, isn’t it? Because we’re all like craving so much both the aspiration of the highlight reel but also the like pull behind the curtain and what does Oz look like not up on the magnified screen? Just like a freaking human.

Jill
I remember wanting that so badly when I felt so lost in this game, like 2013 to like 2016 I remember feeling so frustrated when people were like, just work less, make more. And I was like, I hate you. What does that even mean? Right? I just struggled that I would just wanted so badly for someone to be like, look, on some days I cry a lot. Yeah. And on other days I drink at 2pm.

Cait
Totally, you’re like, Wow, I’m not saying it’s so true. I love that. Well tell us a little more about like, cuz I think you guys came onto my radar, I moved to Bali at the like tail end of 2015. Beginning of 2016 2016 was my year of just like, being like a vacuum and just like sucking up so much information and finally started my business in 2017. And I can’t remember it was I’d already started my business when I started seeing your ads. But I was like, Oh my God, these guys are so cool. Babe like, Let’s be like them. And he’s like, I’m not getting in front of a camera. Like not my thing. Toby’s. That’s not his dharma. But I remember seeing you guys and just like out there crushing it and being so aspirational, especially for other like digital nomads. I don’t know if that was like your angle, but just so aspirational for people who are wanting to like literally as the name says, screw the nine to five and reimagine their careers and do stuff differently. And I’m curious like the, as you mentioned before, like the brand starting to shift, maybe the demographics starting to shift a little like, when did that start to happen? And what what inspired that for you guys?

Jill
That was this year. But it’s funny that you say you found us in 2017. First off, we lived in Asia, I love Asia. And I went to Bali in 2019. And I wish I could go back. It’s just so magical there. It’s funny because 2017 I feel like I had the biggest emotional breakdown of my life. I was gearing up to it at least because it really hit in the beginning of 2018 Right before I had my son. But 2017 was just this like transformative year for us where I was pregnant with our first kid. And our business just started to feel like an anchor. I don’t know if anyone’s ever felt that way. But you know, when we first started our membership site, which was called ScrewU like screw University. It was a monthly membership. And we loved it. And we had like all these members, and it was making so much money and like people would come to us for like, membership strategy and all this stuff. And, you know, they called us mom and dad, they threw us like a virtual baby shower, like they would come to all our live events, like we had the most amazing members, they call themselves scramily. Like they were awesome. And still, it was starting to feel like this heavy burden, like needing to be on all the time needing to have the solution for people needing to like, just, we had a presence dependent business, meaning we believed at the time, like we needed to be there in order for people to not cancel or to not leave or whatever it is. And when you’re in the membership game, you know, churn and retention is like your holy grail. And if you start to see a dip, you’d like stress out because that’s your monthly income, right? So it was really this interesting period for us of 2017 into 2018. Where it started this transition for us, which I think is culminated into this year where we changed our brand name and whatnot. So in 2018, like February 2018, I had my son. And I remember just a few weeks before that I was all the weeks pregnant. And I was living in BC, British Columbia, Canada, which is in the winter of like, so gloomy, right? And so I hadn’t seen this on in so long. And I remember like collapsing on my closet floor being like I hate my business, and just feeling so stressed out and so lost and so gripped by fear, because we just had this business that required so much from us, and I didn’t know how I could ever have the capacity to also be a mom. And it stressed me the fuck out. Like I was so nervous about it. And what happened was our son just was this beautiful catalyst for so much change in our life. Like he came in and we just our minds were off the business, right? Like for once in our whole life. And we’re like, I feel so happy right now. Like, what, what is starting to feel wrong? Like why don’t we want to go back to work? It really freaked us out because our identity was like, no, no, we have this community and that’s like, they call us Mama Jill, you know, mom and dad and all this and like, are we gonna let people down and like, what will we do for money? And, you know, we’re just starting to like spiral. Yeah, and I remember, it was in June. I don’t know why my biggest breakthroughs happen on balconies with alcohol. But we’re at another moment where a huge breakthrough happened with balconies and alcohol. So we were On the balcony having a drink. And you know, I was just so burnt out at this point, our kid was like four months. And Josh was like, I was just like, I just fuckin hate this. Like, I really am not happy. I don’t like it. And because you have that vibe, of course, your incomes going down, like everything feels like it’s caving in on you. And it’s just now you have a tiny human and you’re like, well, and he was like, Josh was like, You know what business we love. And I was like, nothing. I was so jaded. I hate all of it. And he’s like, No, we love affiliate marketing. And it was like, thing. And then things started to really piece together because screw the nine to five, our biggest hurdle with that was we were never known for one thing we had never niched down, because screw the nine to five is very like, it’s like abrasive term, like we were like, Screw the nine to five. You know what I mean? Like it’s empthatic And people feel it. And it’s, but it’s not for one specific person, you know? And so we really struggled to figure out like, who do we serve? And how do we serve them? We have this free group will teach that we have a membership, maybe we should teach that we do these challenges. Maybe we should teach that. And just we always just struggled to find our way. And then when Josh said, We love affiliate marketing, well, then it all started to piece in, because we’re like, oh, my god, we’re really good at building community, ie the membership groups, all of that. What if we could use our strengths in like, coaching and community to shine a light on other people’s programs, so we didn’t have to create all the things. And so that really started to open up a huge piece of like, mental whitespace, and clarity for us. And we made the decision to close down our membership, which we had had for over three years. At that point, I was making over 330,000 a year like, am I God just, we’re done.

Cait
But like, let’s just like pause for a second because that is freaking humongous, four months postpartum, this like huge identity shift that you’re in the middle of not to mention all the hormones all the time, all the flu everywhere. But just like having this breakthrough moment of hang on, like, I don’t want to do that anymore. Like the bravery and the courage to let go of your biggest revenue generating part of your business, something that’s generating like, multiple six figures every single year, like that had to be kind of terrifying.

Why Jill ultimately pivoted her business and let go of her biggest revenue generator

Jill
It was terrifying. But it was also the biggest feeling of relief. To know like, No, we’re all in on this, we’re gonna close this down. It actually felt like except like I was nervous, I’m not going to especially because we told people to their face, at our members event. So I don’t know if that was the best time but it felt like it because I couldn’t just fake it with people who had been in our world for three years and be like, see it in the U on Monday, and be like, oh, by the way, we’re closing this in three months. So we gave people heads up, we told them at the live event, I was really nervous how that would be received, it was the most beautifully well received thing ever, and someone stood up in your life. And they were like, you know how we always call Jill and Josh, mom and dad, like, I think now it’s the moment where they’re telling us we have to move out. And it was such a beautiful experience. So that was great. And then in 2019, like January 1, we had nothing but our podcast, our social media and our email list. We cut every offer that no longer served us. We closed all our free groups, we just wipe the slate clean, we cleared out our team, we had a podcast editor, and we eventually hired a VA and we just blank slated. And we’re like, what do we want to create. And that was like such a beautiful moment of space for us. We gave ourselves a whole year to determine our next moves. And we just promoted other people’s programs, we had been promoting James Wedmore as business by design for a while and we created a great promo with him. And like, we did another one with Amy Porterfield. And in the space of eight weeks, we made our entire 2018 revenue. Wow. And that was like, oh my god. It was like we were swimming upstream by hanging on to something that no longer served us. And the minute we clear that that space just like so much flowed in for us. That it was crazy.

Cait
Amazing. I love that story so much. And it’s like a theme that I’ve been thinking about recently is you know, this, this analogy that we hear all the time or this thing of like leap and the net will appear or like the the gap between when you you know make a bold move and it all works out like there is that terrifying leap there is that space where you just don’t know how it’s all going to go but the courage to wipe the slate clean, even if you didn’t know like you had a hunch, but you didn’t know how it was all going to go but like to be so all in on that and to be so aligned together with Josh and to just go for that. It’s like such a redemptive story to hear that you know years and years and years into your business, you had this like profound pivot, gave yourself the whitespace. And the like in eight weeks, you made your annual revenue from the year before. That’s freaking insane.

Why it’s so important to find alignment in life and how to face what no longer serves you

Jill
Yeah, it’s crazy. I’m a true believer alignment is velocity. Like, if if things are just about that, yeah, if things are just not clicking for you, if you know like deep down inside, this feels heavy, because you always know what feels heavy, what feels like, right? Deep down, we always know what feels heavy, even if we don’t want to admit it, right, because that’s what it really is, like, we don’t want to admit it to ourselves, we don’t want to admit it to like our following, or whatever it is our parents, our family or spouse, whatever that is right for fear of judgment. But we always know deep down inside of something feels heavy. And it’s our responsibility to tune into that and to create a life and a business that supports what feels light. Because that’s when you show up and you do your best work. You know, I was no longer serving people to my highest capacity. When I was operating in something that I didn’t like any more. Like, towards the end of it. I was just like, I wasn’t a total dick on my coaching calls. But I would have moments where I’m like, wow, that was a real dick thing I said they’re like, someone would be like, you know, I’m just struggling to blah blah blah and I’d be like, haven’t we just talked about that last week, though, like I was just so you are in a place to be coaching. So this allowed me to kind of like find my way again, and to get back into alignment with who I wanted to help and how I wanted to help them.

Cait
I love that so much. Alignment is velocity. And I’m curious what you would say because I think that like as a concept, there’s probably a lot of people listening who are like, Yes, I love that what a golden nugget I can get behind that. But the actual process of like sitting down and facing what is no longer aligned for all the reasons that you just named, I think it’s like profoundly confronting for a lot of people and something that totally that we want to avoid. And I’m curious, like, if you could give some advice to like, the mindset shift, or whatever helped you. And at this point, like you and Josh together, be able to not only level with yourselves internally and like get real with yourselves, but then level with each other and be like, hey babe, like, I’m not happy in this anymore. I don’t want to do this, like, are we willing to change everything as we know, it completely rewire this, you know, tear it to the ground in some ways, or strip it back to the bare bones in order to rebuild, like, what does somebody have to let go of, and then welcome in in order to just be able to go through that process.

Jill
For me, it looked like or for us, it looked like asking ourselves over and over and not even joking how much we asked ourselves. This was ludicrous. What do we want? Like it’s so simple. But I was like, Well, I want to serve our members. But if I was really real with myself, No, I didn’t anymore. I didn’t want that. And so like anytime I would answer with something like that, I was like self betraying myself, because deep down, I’d be like, No, you don’t. Yes. And for me, asking that over and over again, until I just couldn’t continue to lie to myself was a big piece. And then what I had to release, hands down was a fear of judgment. Because I had a rocky past with a lot of female relationships in my life. And I had a good strong, like 10 years of like real intense bullying, and just like public humiliation, and all of that kind of stuff. And so then to like, smear a good thing, and potentially anger a whole bunch of people, like we had over 800 members, you know, like, I was just like, This is crazy. Like, I was panicking before telling people. But as I finally admitted what I actually wanted, like the thought of that was just so freeing to me. And once I realized that it was a fear of judgment, and I was just worried about like, what other people might think or say about me, even though I would never know for actual sure what they truly think or say about me, like, I let it just be this dark cloud over me. And so when I finally had the awareness to release that, and be like, but they don’t have to run this fucking thing I do. You know, like, I’m the one who has to do it. I’m the one who, you know, like, Josh and I are strained because we’re so miserable in this and like, our money is going down. And this is happening. I’m a mom now. Like, who do I want to be for my kid? You know, like, Who do I want to be as my own person who do I want to be as an as a wife and as an entrepreneur, and then as I started asking all of that, my, like levels or my fear around judgment really started to subside. I would also say that becoming a mom helps you give way less f’s. Oh, yeah, totally. So that also helped me out

Cait
So much yes to that. All of that is so resonant and I totally hear you on the fear of judgment thing and like disappointing other people and how in mesh that is, especially when we’ve had experiences of like, relationship trauma, or you know, sisterhood, drama, or judgment and all that kind of negative stuff that you had experienced and how to walk through like the fear of activating that again, but I just I love so much that you it’s almost like being your own bullshit detector. Like, what do you actually want? What do you know, what do you actually want and noticing what part of you is answering like, it sounds like in the beginning, this like, you know, Jill, the mom of all the screw you was answering. But now like Jill, the new actual mom, and yeah, the entrepreneur, the woman, the woman who’s ready to reinvent herself, and it’s just like digging down until you get that answer. It’s so so good.

Jill
It was like my, like, my brain answering that question, when really my heart needed to answer it.

How motherhood taught Jill to let go of her fear of judgment

Cait
Yes. That’s so beautiful. I love that so much. And I’m so curious. And there’s a couple different things that you brought up that I want to like go off in there kind of in different directions. But you talk about like how becoming a mom helped you give way fewer fucks? And I’m so I mean, I’m like, yes, yes. And all the yes to that. God, there’s so many things I could say about that. But I literally thinking of coaching calls where like, showed up, like covered in breast milk or like client’s sas my nipples. I was like, I really don’t care. But like now, it’s just it is what it is. But I’m so curious for you how having Kai, I mean, obviously there was such an initiation in those like, really early days of what do we want, let’s reevaluate let’s, you know, strip everything back. But I’m curious even as your journey has unfolded, like you guys recently just moved to Cayman. I’m so curious how like motherhood has woven in with your entrepreneurial journey and just continue to shape the way that you even make decisions.

Jill
I cut everything that no longer moves the needle. Like I’m so ruthless about that. Now, for example, these are just like small examples, but I’m a fervent believer in is like, we haven’t done a podcast in I don’t know, like maybe two months or so because I’m like, well, it’s not a needle mover for us. Our social media isn’t really a needle mover for us. Our ads, our paid launches, those are all needle movers. So I’m all in on those, because I have a finite amount of time. And I feel like the older I get, I’m now 40, like, even less energy. So I only want to do things that I actually care to do. And one of those is not social media. And it’s also not the podcast right now. And when I find my way back to it, I hope it will be because I’m in alignment with it. And I’m actually excited about it. But if it’s not moving the needle for us, if it’s not driving revenue for us, I am focusing on it.

Cait
I love that so much in such a powerful reminder and permission slip to just be super ruthless about where you’re spending your time and what actually matters.

Jill
Well, it’s so like, it took me a long time because we’re taught so many shoulds No, you should be posting on Instagram multiple times a day. No, you should be doing tick tock, no, you should have a podcast, you should be consistent. You should email your list, you should have a lead magnet. And I’m like, fuck all of that. Like fuck all of it. I don’t have one lead magnet anywhere on our site that you could find anywhere either on the screw, or on wealthy course creator, you can’t find one thing for free. And I know a lot of people are like, what that’s you’re not giving away value. I’m like, are you crazy, I’m giving away a ton of value just in a different capacity. Because I believe when people pay, they pay attention. So I’d much rather work with people who have skin in the game than a bunch of freebie seekers. That’s just my own personal preference. Now, or like you should be consistent with your content. But if you’re creating shit content, because you’re so in the weeds of your business or you just don’t care right now, then that content is going to be crap. And you’re just doing it to hit a publish date, which I’m like, that’s also an arbitrary thing. That doesn’t really matter. You know?

Cait
So yeah, so much. Yes. I love that. I’ve like chuckling over here because I’m like, Oh, you might have changed the name girlfriend. But the screw energy is still very strong. Like fuck this fuck that. I’m not doing it that way. I love it.

Jill
That’ll never change with a brand name change.

Should you follow the traditional path of marketing or reinvent the wheel?

Cait
I love it. But it’s so and like how freeing because you’re so right. And especially in Yeah, like traditional marketing. We’re told we have to have all these things and I love that you’re doing what you’re doing and you’re just like, Yeah, I’m no freebies, no this no that we’ve got a podcast, we’ve got Instagrams but like we’re not prioritizing it. And you can make money other ways. And so to be really clear about what works for you, and what’s actually moving the needle for your business, I think is such a powerful reminder for people to hear.

Jill
And I also think next year not to like dive into all things like, like, business like straight into the nitty gritty Like, dude energy kind of talking about, like, what are the trends for 2022? Right, but I truly do believe you’ll see way more people start to move towards, like customer acquisition model versus lead acquisition model, because it’s just not as effective anymore. People are hip to it. I mean, the amount of people who have reached out to us over the last few months to jam with us on paid launch strategy is wild. And like some of the biggest names in the space who are just like, my free stuff isn’t converting anymore, it’s just like the ad costs are way too high, the engagement is way too low, the conversions are shit, like, I need something better. And I really think that you can make that decision for yourself if it feels aligned to to walk away from free stuff and prioritize customers.

Cait
I love that and just such a powerful invitation as well to innovate and reinvent and it’s not working just because you learned it from some bro dude, marketers webinar three years ago, like shifted up, um, say more about that about when you say customer acquisition model versus lead acquisition, you mean basically a sending paying clients through a model as opposed to like, get free leads and hope that they become paying clients.

What’s the difference between a customer acquisition model and a lead acquisition model?

Jill
Yeah. So what we do is we run like, what is called SLOs self liquidating offers. So it’s like a mini course or workshop series, a digital asset bundle, whatever you want to create, that you’ve run with paid traffic or organically But ideally, with paid traffic 24/7, to acquire customers instead of running ads to a lead magnet. And you know, it might convert it, you know, 2%, or something like that, if you’re lucky, right. So this we go straight to customer acquisition. So we’re working with people who have skin in the game, they’ve invested in it. So they’re showing up, they’re using the material, you have a customer nurture group that you can, you know, go live in, you can upsell them into other programs into a paid launch into your signature program. Like there’s so many ways to make this model work for you. That allows you to get away from the freebie seekers who were just like, I just don’t have the time, or I just don’t have the money or whatever it is, right. We just avoid all of that people who don’t like make strong decisions for their, what they actually want. And we go straight to people who are willing to do it.

Cait
That’s amazing. I love that and I am I cannot wait to like go back to this conversation as the next year progresses. Because I see that so much. And even in like our launch trends are witnessing clients like yeah, people who have skin in the game, even if they’ve paid $33, $55, like there’s so much more likely to convert to a higher offer.

Jill
The amount doesn’t matter. It’s simply shifting the relationship from audience member, IG scroller to customer, because that is a transference of trust. And they will use it more, which means they get more results or a better Aha. Which means then they’ll want to keep working with you. Right? If they have a great experience with you, why would they ever continue to go somewhere else? They’d be like, No, I love Caits stuff. I want more.

Cait
Right. I love that. That’s so beautiful. It’s such a great prediction. Oh, I’m really excited to see that play out. And I love that you guys are leading in that space. So if you want to know more about that reach out to Jill, we’re gonna put Instagram in our show notes. But if you’re not on there a lot, send her an email.

Jill
I do answer DMs. I just don’t post a lot.

Cait
But I love that. And I think that’s so important. And again, just so cool to see you guys blazing that that thought leadership trail forward for people who are like, Yeah, I want to do it differently. And I want to get paid for my time which Halloween. We’re all about. I’m so curious. You know, you mentioned before, like that decade that was like really challenging with, you know, relationships with other women, you also are the founder of Millionaire Girls Club. I am joining you in Costa Rica this year. I’m so excited. Not this year, in 2022. It’s gonna be a blast, it’s going to be so good. But tell me more about why you started that club. And that community of women who are super successful crushing it, tell us about both like your internal process for wanting to build it and like the vision for what that group can can be for other women.

Jill
So fun fact, I had that idea in Bali, actually, back in 2019. And I sat on it. Because I was just I sat on it for nearly two years because I had had this tumultuous experience with women before and I was like, Wait a minute. So I’m now going to create a business serving women like now that’s now does not for me. That’s way too like triggering for me. But I just could not get it out of my head. Like I personally want to go on a badass luxury vacation with powerhouse women who are generous, empowered, confident, conscious, kind, you know, like, I wanted that so badly and that was not a thing. I don’t know any retreats that have that where it’s just like a one off thing and it’s not attached to a mastermind, which is what I wanted so badly because I didn’t want a container at the time of a mastermind I just wanted the trip, I wanted to like, go balls to the walls with women who are fucking amazing. And just have a memorable experience and unforgettable experience and then be like, see you next year. You know, like, I went to a retreat called Mastermind Talk. It’s actually where I got pregnant. And it’s run by another Canadian, his name’s Jason Gaynor, and he puts on an amazing retreat. And it’s 80% dudes Right? And so the people are fascinating, like no qualms about that. And the experience he created was amazing. But like, now you only have 20% of people who like you really vibe with and now you’re trying to like find those people. And you know what I mean? Like, at the assigned seating, you just be like, sat beside women, you know, like it. So it wasn’t really curated the way I was hoping for. And so I was like, fuck it, what if I just create it, and I want this, like, I’m sure I know, other women, at least the ones that I’m connected to want something like this, but I was nervous when I was nervous to ask my friends, for $10,000 You know, that’s a big ask for a lot of my close friends. Not that they don’t have the money. It’s just like, I had attachment to making that ask. And so I finally got my shit together at the end of 2020. And I was like, fuck it, I’m just gonna do it. Josh was taking much more of the screw at the time. And he was like handling all the operations and, you know, the team and management and all that kind of stuff. So I had the space to do it. And so I started 2021 with like, just dipping my toes in, you know, started an IG. I don’t know why, because I don’t do well with IG. But it brought me all these women who were perfect fits and I started hosting mixers so that I could connect with women and start talking about my retreat. And it just, it’s so funny, because everything that we had done in the screw previously, like, I always had to, like, quote, unquote, work so hard for it, right? Like you had to run a launch and you had to like pitch and you had to like, have strong follow up and like card open and bonuses, and you know, all this kind of stuff. I’ve never had something that is so easy and fill so quickly as MGC Costa Rica, it’s just people were just reaching you reached out to me, you know, like, you’re a perfect example. You were like, Hey, I hear you’re running retreats. And I was like, here we go. You know? Yeah, the experience I’ve had with you has been pretty similar to how I filled this retreat, just people coming to me, that was super cool. Because of one thing I was so scared of stepping into the ring, and serving a bunch of women actually has been the easiest thing I’ve ever done in my entrepreneur career. So I was actually at a Tony Robbins mastermind in March. And I got to ask him a Q and I don’t even know what I was thinking, like, I went in with a strategic, like, outer game kind of question to ask Tony Robbins, like how to structure your events. And he was like, you know, went straight to the inner game stuff and uncovered that I had this experience with women in my past and like, he just tore it all apart. And like, you need to you know, you had to have that experience so that you could be broken into or so you could be cracked open, because that’s where the light happens. And, you know, you needed to understand how it feels to not have women who get it and to feel isolated and alone and you know, triggered by other women. And he just like, helped shift that whole perspective, which was such a cool thing to experience in general. Yeah. But just got me so hyped for the retreat. And so it’s just been a wild ride, like the women who have been called in like, I’m just so excited for you to experience it. They’re all like so many different businesses, so many different industries, so many different business models. And all like generous, compassionate, conscious, kind women who are making millions like it’s just so rad how it happened.

Cait
So beautiful. I love that so much. I am so excited. And I think you have one spot left, right? Yes, yes. So if you are making a million dollars or more, and you want to talk to Jill about coming to Costa Rica, I’m going to be there. It’s going to be an amazing end of March beginning right end of March, beginning of April. March 30-April 3. Amazing. So we’re gonna put all those details in the links and everything in the show notes. So you can check that out. One thing that you said a couple things here, and I feel like it’s really really important like the piece about, you know, I want this it doesn’t exist, let me create it such a powerful nugget. And I think for so many of us, we feel like we have to wait to be invited into the table and forget the week and actually build the table that we want to sit at. And that’s so brave, so courageous. And then the other piece about the kind of embarrassment almost the awkwardness of like, you know, there was a part of you that felt like I’m asking my friends for money when really it’s like no, I’m offering an opportunity come, don’t, whatever zero attachment but I just love how you’re describing like the ease and the like easy yeses. And of course I want to join. I think so much of the time we can have a real story in our head about selling and Like, you know, I’m out to get your money when really, really oh, I want to build something epic and I want you to be there and this is what it costs do you want to come and just like really neutralizing the energy around money especially with women who we have some kind of other relationship with a friendship like you go back some way and acquaintance in the industry like you still get to make the ask and make the sale and it gets to be like very heart centered and not just like sharky.

Jill
I have definitely like one I needed to hear that because it’s such a beautiful reminder for myself, because I I certainly struggle with that. Like, even my follow up game has been weak. Like I’ve been really still more timid than I’d like to be in my follow up. And I remember someone said to me, I want you to follow up. Like I’m busy. Like, I don’t remember last time we even talked. So like, I need you to follow up. I got useful.

Cait
Yes, I remember even with me, I was so glad you did send me like just a really super light DM but I was like, thank God because I got pregnant. And I was like, it had been on my list to reach out to you of like, hey, is this okay? I’m gonna be like, super freaking pregnant. Is this cool if I still come I don’t want to, like weigh the party down literally. But it was like, so great to have that because it’s exactly as you’re saying. And I feel especially for your demographic with this offer. Like, you know, these are not women with like heaps of time on their hands like at home playing Candy Crush on their phone, these are running empires and like doing a bunch of stuff.

Jill
And I love the idea of I love the word you use like, like neutralizing the energy around it. Because I also we have a like a done for you offer insights, wealthy course creator, and I’m the one like I’m really stepping into the sales side of it, which I’m newly lit up by, because it was so I would just be I was way too Canadian about it, like, Excuse me, Hi, sorry can I ask this thing, it’s a done for you program, you know, so I’ve been really trying to lean into that. But like, when you talk about neutralizing the energy around it, and not having attachment around it, like that serves me so much as it’s such a beautiful reminder, because, you know, I’m still working with entrepreneurs, like a lot of people are making solid money with when they come into the accelerator, but a lot of them are, like, probably 30% of them are still you know, under 50k. And so a $15,000 investment for them feels like I’m really gonna invest 15,000 You know, and so my follow up has to be like, I feel like I’ve been kind of a little bitch sometimes with my follow up just being like, don’t want to bug you about it again.

Cait
Yeah, it’s so interesting. And it’s so funny that you’re talking about those numbers specifically because I was literally just sharing an anecdote the other day of the first time that I was actually my second business third actually business coach investment but the first like $15,000 offer that I paid in full I just quit my full time job I was living in, in Bali at the time and my job was remote and I had only made about like less than 50,000. Maybe 40 in my business so far I’d started it you know, half a year earlier, but I was like fuck it I’m going to do it and I know where I’m going this is going to take off and I had saved money from my not like a ton of money like living in a palace but I had you know enough to be able to make that investment and not worry about rent and it so you just never know like what someone’s financial story is and so the the power of offering someone that opportunity, my whole thing around that is always just like, committed but not attached. Like I’m so committed to offering you this opportunity and being in the conversation with you and like really being having like an aspirational opportunity for you. And if it’s like you don’t want to do it. Cool. Zero attachment. No drama.

Jill
I love that so much committed but unattached. Yeah, hell yeah. That’s the vibe right there with sales. Yeah, it’s like you don’t want to be like needy first date energy.

Cait
No, but you also don’t want to be like why isn’t he making eye contact and just on his phone energy and doesn’t tell me but he’s doing it because he nervous as hell instead of just connecting and so it’s like, can I be here with you and present but also like, not have my entire identity wrapped up in whether you say yes or not.

Jill
Hmm. And I love watching you launch your higher ticket stuff. Like I always I just always vibe with how you show up when you’re selling higher priced stuff and I’m like, Look at her, and pure fucking power energy. I just, I like watching that thing, which sounds creepy. I like watching.

Cait
No it’s fine I creep on people on Instagram all the time. I think you know, for me, coming to love sales has been such a journey and it’s really similar to what you’re talking about. And I think it’s exactly this thing of committed but not have attached it’s really helped me fall in love and stay connected with that power and like still be like, Whoa, she’s like, really into this thing that she’s selling but also not feel like I’m on an emotional roller coaster in a launch just because it’s like yeah, I’m super into it. I’d love for you to be there. And if you it’s not the thing totally fine.

Jill
Which just makes people want it even more. Yeah, for sure. The detachment of it.

Cait
Yeah, the analogies with dating are so real, right? Like no one wants a needy first date. No one wants to avoid an awkward, but you want that someone who’s like present but like doesn’t need you. You’re like, oh, I want you though.

Jill
Oh, totally like that was like Josh, when we first met who wouldn’t sit beside me, wouldn’t sit across from me. He sat diagonal to me and like ignored me. And I was like, What is he doing? Like why is this happening? And then we had like, a flirty moment, and I was like, Oh, okay.

Cait
It’s all it’s all happening from here. I love that so much. Jill tell our listeners where they can stay connected with you follow along with wealthy course creators, everything you’ve got coming up and also follow along in MGC.

Jill
Yeah. So the easiest way I know I said I’m not on Instagramthat much. But truly, I do answer DMs I promise so at Wealthy Course Creator on IG and at the millionaire Girls Club on IG, or you could just go to wealthycoursecreator.com. That’s like our hub for where we do all our coaching. And we have like a funky little crash course that teaches like the paid launch method. So if you are thinking that you want to get out of the freebie game, that’s a great place to start.

Cait
I love that so much. Thank you so much for having this conversation. Good. And I can’t wait for people to hear it.

Jill
I can’t wait to meet you and hang out with you in Costa Rica. Hell yes. Thank you so much for having me.

Cait
Of course. Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The borns arised podcast. If you liked what you heard, head on over to iTunes and leave us a review and make sure to check out born to rise podcast.com to stay tuned for next week’s episode. I’ll see you there