Cait
Aimee Batuski & Ellie Montgomerie, are pleasure and intimacy experts committed to women living turned on connected and satisfying lives. These women are the millennial authorities in the global movement of the new feminine founders of desire on fire. They’ve worked side by side with some of the top intimacy and sexuality teachers in the world including Nicole Daedone, founder of the worldwide movement orgasmic meditation, Mama Gena, founder of the School of womanly arts and New York Times best selling author, and Miss Jaiya Jaya who created the “Erotic Blueprints”, and has been hand selected by Tony Robbins to work with his Platinum members on sexuality and relationships. Their company Desire onFfire is teaching, training and inspiring a new generation of women to become powerful agents of change, who allow their desires and pleasure to lead the way as they step into a whole new world of freedom, manifestation and ease. Everyone is raving about their retreats and programs. And they’ve taught 1000s of women how to create wildly confident intimacy, hot sex and fulfilling relationships. This conversation with Aimee and Ellie is so fascinating not just because we get hot and steamy talking about all the things pleasure and intimacy and how it impacts business, but also diving into Aimee and Ellie’s really unique business model, where they are partners in a company and they peel back the curtain on how that partnership works. So if you are somebody who has been curious about what it would be like to run a business with a partner, this episode is definitely for you. Without further ado, here’s my conversation with Aimee and Ellie of Desire on Fire. Thank you so much for being here.

Ellie
Thank you so much for having us

Cait
Oh my god, I’m so pumped. know in the pre show. I’m like Alright, stop, stop. We’re gonna just have the whole conversation now. Like there’s so much we can talk about and I know we recorded recently for your podcast and you both are just incredible. And I’m so excited for our audience and our listeners to dive into just the freakin wellspring of wisdom and insight and fresh perspective that you guys have first of all, you are a partnership in the online space, which is you know, people do collaborations together but I don’t know a whole lot of other business owners who are really running a successful ie seven figure partnership like you guys are. I know last year you celebrated your first seven figure year which is so exciting. Congratulations, and you are running this company living in different parts of the world, Aimee, you’re like Carmen Sandiego. I don’t know where you are, are pregnant and about to give birth to a baby, I think you’re like one week or two weeks ahead of me in the pregnancies, you’re like, almost ready to pop. And you guys are truly leading like a global movement for women to give back to their desire to come back to their bodies to get back into pleasure. And it’s just such a revolution. So we have so much to dive into today. The first thing that I would love to ask you guys is about how, like, tell us the story. I feel like, we got the highlights we know you guys are freaking badass is, but like, how did you start this business? How did you dream it up desire on fire? Like, where did it come from?

How Aimee and Ellie started Desire on Fire

Ellie
Yeah, well, this is Ellie. Aimee and I met I think, God eight years ago now in New York City. And we were both doing lots of personal growth work, you know, we met originally at a goddess event. And then we saw each other again at Landmark and which is a personal growth program. And we were just building a friendship. And I was in I had a network marketing business at the time, and I was trying to recruit her into my business, because if you know, Aimee Batuski, she’s someone that you would want on your team. She’s like the connector extraordinaire. And so we were you know, building your relationship and going to yoga and, and we just loved each other. And she was a no at the time to joining my team. But we built a friendship, and really our friendship as it evolved revolved around complaining about men. And neither of us were having any success in the dating realm. We were both as you can imagine. We were in our 20s. And both, you know, entrepreneurs really focused on our business, but you know, couldn’t get a date. And we would call each other and say, you know, God, what is wrong with these men? And why can’t we meet guys on our level. And, you know, that was, that was a real pillar of our connection. And then in the spring of 2016, I discovered growth work focused on pleasure. And it completely changed my life and about, you know, basically healing my relationship to my body, my sensuality, really diving into what was holding me back in my intimacy with all people, but especially men. And I ended up in a very short period of time meeting my husband, getting engaged, and traveling to South Africa, where he lived at the time. Wow. And Aimee saw all this happen on social media and called me and was like, What is going on?

Aimee
What the hell happened? What did you do to my friend? Why are you engaged? You betrayed me. We in a club. In a man hating club.

Ellie
Yeah. And I said to her, I tell I shared with her what I had been doing and, and I said, you know, you’ve got to check out this, this kind of work, you’re gonna love it. And she, she did in LA. So she was living in LA at that by that time. So she went on her whole own growth journey.

Aimee
Yeah, I mean, I was I was so skeptical of this work, like I had done years of personal development work. My parents met at Landmark I was raised in a personal development family, going to courses and seminars and speaking about empowerment and creating your life and communicating effectively. So that was all normal to me, but going to courses and workshops about orgasm, and sex and intimacy, and pleasure was like, totally an edge. Even though I love talking about that stuff. My whole life. It like talking about it for myself with men, was terrifying. And actually having to open my body to practices around breath and movement and orgasm and connection in this vulnerable way was like, absolutely terrifying. So, and I was desperate. You know, people say, I love the saying people come to this growth work from inspiration or desperation. And all of my work up until that point was from inspiration. But for this area, particularly it had to be from desperation, because I was so confronted by it, and I was so stuck from it. estrogen men and I wanted love. I wanted sex, I wanted connection. So I dove in and started taking all of these trainings and retreats and programs all about sex and orgasm and intimacy. And Ellie and I were kind of on parallel journeys. She was in New York, I was in LA, although she was married. At this point, she got married pretty quickly. So not quite parallel. But we were both awakening our bodies, our orgasmic energy, right, our connection to ourselves. And then she moved to LA. And we were both like she said, we had we had successful businesses, she was in network marketing, I had my own coaching business more around accountability and communication and success. And we were like, we are so inspired by this body of work and all these teachers that we’re working with. And we want to share our experience and the tools that we’re learning with the world. Let’s come together and create something. So we started with retreats. And in 2018, November, we held our first retreat with seven women. And it was so much work to get seven women into our first retreat, like herding cats to get them into this first retreat, but it was so beyond magical and amazing. And we just slowly grew from there. We have two retreats the following year in 2019. And then one retreat at the beginning of 2020, before the pandemic hit. And that was the year I moved to Bali. I thought I was only going to be there for two months. But I was there for two years. And we decided to go Yeah, right, exactly. You know, you know how it is Kate. And we decided at that point to go all in to desire on fire and grow the company.

Cait
Amazing. So you were in LA. So Ellie, and Aimee, you’d moved to Bali when you guys decided, all right, this is not just like a fun retreat hobby, like we’re going we’re going all the way.

Ellie
Well, I think a lot of people probably experienced this, that 2020 You really had to look at yourself and what you were valuing and get honest about, you know, it’s like, you couldn’t hide any more. And Aimee was way more she had already started incorporating this into her coaching and her business, I was still very much in my network marketing career, which I thought I would do forever. I had worked so hard, you know, I see now that I wasn’t fully in alignment, which is why it was so hard. And I thought, you know, in the beginning, oh, I’ll just host some retreats on the side. And I like this, it’s fun. But really, in 2020, I had to confront that I actually had a huge desire for my career that had nothing to do with my network marketing business. And I actually had to, like, fully let go of the identity that I was holding on to, you know, with who I was in that business. And it was a death, you know, it was it was intense. And on the other side of that I was able to fully step into Desire on Fire. And it’s been, I mean, the best thing ever. And we yeah, we did it virtually, you know, over 2020 We started hosted, we created our, you know, program, which is called pleasure, mastery. And we created this incredible event that we were supposed to do in person and weren’t able to do you know, we did it twice, virtually and the first time in person with 300 Women last October. So yeah, we we were working with our business coaches and just built this whole business model over 2020. Yeah, and I was in, I was in LA, Aimee was in Bali, we just did it on Zoom, it was pretty magical. And we finally got to be back together.

Cait
That is just so incredible. And there’s so many nuggets there of this story of you know, like, following you guys really walking your talk and being led by desire and paying attention to Okay, well I have we have these separate businesses that are actually going really well and making money and you know, we don’t it’s not like we need this and yet, there was such a deeper knowing that this was what was pulling both of you and in so many ways. Like, I love hearing the timeline of this as well because it really it was such a risk like to do and to make any pivot to do anything new in 2020 when the world like shirts, pants and everything turned upside down. Especially if you’ve only services or products that you had sold to date, were retreats, and then you are now like great. I want to go into partnership together. The only thing we’ve ever sold is in person events. Let’s do it. And the fact that like in what two years you’ve been able to scale that to a seven figure company it’s just it’s so beautiful and such a powerful reminder again, if you listen to the show, you’re not sick of hearing this but you probably come to expect it a that taking the damn risk and going in the direction of what you want, and really leaning into that so hard because this is what comes from the other side. So I love that nugget. And I would love to hear you guys talk a little bit more about the partnership model, because I imagine we have listeners here who have, you know, I, myself have done collaborations paid programs with other people, but you guys have Are you like in a limited liability partnership? I’m curious about the like legals and the infrastructure, and you don’t have to like read your articles of incorporation. I don’t mean like that detail. But, but if you asked, I’m curious about more of like, how you like the ducks that you had to get in a row and the i’s you had to dot and T’s you had to cross in order to really set yourself up structurally in a sound way from a partnership perspective. But then also the emotional, like navigating collaborating with a friend. And, and because you guys at that stage moved from, you know, friends to true business partners, and there’s an additional layer of relationship, there’s a whole new relationship that was born from that. And I imagine that that was a real activation and invitation for you not to not only deepen in your connection with each other, but also to really tighten up not that there was like anything not tight before, but to really get super clear on boundaries to both safeguard and preserve your friendship, but also to protect the business relationship and how important that is. And I just think, again, it’s so cool that you guys is to very, like feminine desire led women, like really have your shit together in this area. Because it wasn’t just like, I imagine it wasn’t just like, No, we trust each other. It’s all good. Let’s just do business together, like you really got yourself set up. So tell us tell us about both of those pieces.

How to set business and friendship boundaries when you run a business with a friend

Aimee
Yeah, well, in terms of the legal side, we’ve definitely been on a ride with that, because we started out, I had the coaching business, right, I only have the network marketing business, I have the coaching business already established. So when we started doing retreats and started doing kind of small programs, everything was going through my business, and I would just pay her out, because that was just like, the easy way to do things. And when we decided to go all in, we’re like, we need to change this. Right. So we moved into being an LLC. And we’ve gone through a whole ride with accountants and lawyers, and good advice and bad advice. And so it’s been a whole journey. But for a while. It was just me, like mining was on the LLC. And still Ellie was, you know, I just she she was paid out everything half right, all of our earnings. What she was paid half. And then we got to a point I actually, I’m actually pretty sure that yeah, this is where we’re at now is meat, I think I’m still the one the only name on the LLC, but we have a formal operating agreement written up by our lawyers that have it’s 50/50. And everyone was telling us someone needs to be 49/51. Someone has to be the 51% to make the decision. At the end of the day, if there’s a if there’s a you know, someone needs to be the tiebreaker. Or the deal breaker, right? Like, somebody has to make the decision if you guys are disagreeing down the line. And we were a firm no to that. So we were very clear, we are 50/50. And it didn’t matter how many accountants or lawyers told us you have to be 4951, we were clear, we’re 50/50 partnership.

Cait
That’s so interesting. And I love I love that I love that you guys need both shared that same knowing and I can imagine the energetics of that there would just be literally that 1% Like niggle that’s like this person has more control of the company and not that that person, you know, based on your friendship and the trust that you had would ever exercise that to like, screw the other person over. But for one person to legally have that power. I can totally see why that would not feel good.

Aimee
Right? Yeah. So we went with a 50/50. And it feels great. And I mean, there’s so much to say about this. And I think you know Ellie can share about how things kind of started in terms of our energetics of the partnership and like how confronted we got because we have gone through portal after portal after portal being business partners, as you can imagine, but we tuned in with ourselves, which is what we do across the board in our business and we were like we’re clear. We’re 5050 partnership. That’s the way it’s gonna go. We trust and it feels like a marriage. I mean, we relate to our relationship as a marriage. We are work wives, we’re like we’re committed for life. And we’ve had a psychic tell us like we’re in this for life. And, and it feels like that and we both feel so comfortable with that and honestly people ask us for advice about Business Partnership and how to find your line partner and how to and we’re like, we don’t know what to tell you, like, we are so lucky, we have found this, we never get sick of each other. We never like, we might feel annoyed for like a second and we get vulnerable and we share and we clean things up. And we both have a radical practice of personal responsibility and owning our triggers. And then we come back into connection, we laugh all the time, we make light of everything we go through how often because holding a multi, you know, like hundreds of women and making seven figures, like there’s a lot to hold a 10 person team and shit gets real often. And we laugh, we get annoyed, and then we like giggle about it. And we bring levity to things with each other. And it’s so fun, like every day,

Cait
I love that it’s so beautiful.

Ellie
Yeah, and it’s, it’s, it took us some time to work out kind of our roles, each of our roles within the business. And this was this was something that we came to really in the last six months, when we got really serious about hiring a team. You know, a year ago, we had two or three people working for us, you know, doing all the behind the scenes stuff. And over the last six months we’ve hired, and we have, like, at least 10 people on our team now. You know, seven of those are full time. And it’s been just incredible to have more support and back end systems and all of that. And Aimee really is more the CEO and I’m the CMO. I love marketing. So I’m you know more focused on the marketing and running the marketing team. And she’s focused on you know, operations and she’s amazing it so many things. But that really, she’s not so into the writing and the marketing. And so it’s been this cool thing to kind of see our different roles illuminate themselves as time has gone on. And that feels really good to have that clarity, because we didn’t have that for a long time, it was kind of like, you know, just figuring it out as we were going along.

Aimee
Doing everything together writing every single thing together, which is not sustainable, as you can imagine, because we’re growing and growing and like to do every single thing together is a waste of our time

Cait
And a waste of energy 100%.

Ellie
And then I’ll just say to you know, for those of your listeners who are into human design, Aimee’s a manifesting generator, I’m a projector, which we’ve learned as a really good kind of energetic pairing. I’m more the kind of intuitive visionary Aimee’s got an incredible motor, but needs to be guided. But over time, like, Okay, here’s what I want to say, I have really struggled with my insecurity of where I fit in. Because Aimee, from my view, could totally do this alone and did for many years. And so and her she has so many of the strength that I and our culture finds valuable, right? She’s like, so productive, she can like really get shit done. She’s She is incredible at holding space, like really powerful in our retreats. I mean, I could go on and on. Like she’s just amazing. And so it’s really been a inner work journey for me to see my own superpowers which are not as culturally, you know, recognized. Like, over time, I’ve really gotten more more attuned in my intuition in my vision in my space holding, energetic holding, that is not always verbal. You know, we’re in retreats, and she’s doing a lot of the coaching and reflecting to people and I’m doing a lot of the energetic space holding, but I’ve struggled with my own like, Is that even a thing? Is that even valuable? Like do I deserve to be 50/50 in this company, you know, all of those kinds of insecurities. But it’s been so incredible because obviously through that I have stepped so much more into seeing myself seeing my path, my power. You know, Aimee’s been on her own journey of like opening to receive my support. You know, like she was such an independent woman doing everything herself. And so it’s been a real balance of, you know, me stepping more into my leadership in To my gifts, and her also being able to receive that and open to receive a partner and not do everything herself.

Cait
And yeah, so it’s so interesting it and it’s so cool that you does I think you said earlier like you guys are work wives, Aimee and it really does sound like a marriage and even what you’re sharing there Ellie like, you know, it’s really easier I think about conversations that I’ve had at different stages with Toby, my husband and just being like, you know, oh, you know, it feels like if one person is making all the money in one person is contributing equally to the marriage, but in a totally different way. If it’s not on paper, you’re not contributing, and it’s not, it’s not as much or whatever. And it’s so not true, right. And the whole thing would topple over if that other person wasn’t there, even if it looks like one person is doing the lion’s share in X category. And so I love that you share that and thank you for you know, sharing that vulnerable growth edge for you, Elliot, well, for both of you guys like Aimee for you receiving the support Ellie for you, really allowing the partnership model to be your own catalyst for recognizing your strengths and, and seeing how valuable that is.

Ellie
And yeah, and just one other thing I want to say about it, is that the other thing that’s happened is that we’ve gotten so much feedback from our community, that it is so powerful for them to see examples of different kinds of leaders. Yes, so that’s been really affirming because some of them relate more to AMI, or, you know, want to step into more of their Aimee medicine, but and then a lot of them see themselves in me. And so that’s been really powerful to to be like, oh, there’s not one way. And you know, you can be so different. And, you know, living your dreams and creating business. And it doesn’t have to look one way like the feminine and feminine power has so many different forms.

Cait
Yes, that’s so beautiful. And that’s such a great segue because I want to ask you guys now I mean, your company is called desire on fire. You have a program called pleasure master you host What is your live on event? Is it desire on fire live? Like, what’s your live event called?

Ellie
The desire and fire experience

Cait
the desire and fire experience, okay, amazing. And I have a lot of friends and some clients and collaborators and people who I know went to your big 300 person event, which is so cool. And they raved about it. And it sounded and looked like such an amazing experience. I would love to hear you guys talk about what it means to live a desire lead life to run a desire led business like, you know, we hear that and I feel like it’s kind of trendy to talk about desire, but you guys have it as the core essence of your entire business and the way that you lead your lives in the way that you make decisions and like business decisions, structural decisions, like, talk to us about what that means for our listeners who are like, I don’t even know what that means. Tell us what it means.

What does it mean to lead a desire-led life

Aimee
Yeah, so it’s messy. That’s what I want to say first. Yeah. And people think like, oh, you’re making seven figures. And you guys have a partnership. And you’re so successful. And you have this like flashy business, it must be so like such a well oiled machine. And, yeah, we’re getting there in terms of like our business structures and systems, which we’re grateful for. But it is messy, because living in desire, lead life requires coming back to the truth. And when I say the truth, it’s like your truth, like the truth of what’s alive in your body, the truth of your soul. And so we change our minds all the time. And we change the plan all the time. We were leading a call last night for our feminine leadership program. It’s called the apprenticeship program. We have 33 Women in it all over the world. And we’re in the middle of the call, we’re planning to move on to a certain topic of something that we’re that we’re working on with them, they all have projects, and we go into a breakout room. And we’re like, it’s not the resonant thing. We got it, we got to do something else. And we felt into it. And the desire was to have them give each other honest feedback, like real hardcore, honest feedback, which we do often in this program and the leadership program, because part of leadership is getting to hear how you land for people in your leadership, right and actually receiving the feedback and taking on the reflections and seeing how you show up. And it’s hardcore.

Ellie
And being able to give reflections like that, to give honest feedback.

Aimee
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s hardcore. And it’s it’s amazing and so profound and that was the resonant thing. And that was the desire. And so we use the word resonant, aligned congruent, whatever word you want to use. It’s like the word that has it be in to describe like being in resonance with the thing that’s true. With the desire with the, with the thing in our bodies that we can feel is right. And so we like, for example, we have our event in October, right? And we planned it, we found the venue, it happens to be in Denver, Colorado this year, we booked the venue, we paid for it, it’s happening. And Ellie was kind of feeling like, it wasn’t the thing anymore. She was kind of feeling like it’s not aligned. And that was kind of coming up for her. But you know, we had already booked it, and it was the plan was made.

Ellie
Yeah, I was gonna have a four month old, like, this feels kind of hard, like getting everything you know, to Denver, getting everyone to Denver, and what’s that going to be like?

Aimee
Yeah, and so two days ago, we got an email that they they booked an exhibit for the whole fall and canceled our event.

Cait
Whoa, whoa, manifested that one Ellie

Ellie
And. Right, exactly.

Aimee
And we were about to go into a 400 person masterclass where we were going to be offering this event and we didn’t know the venue. And so this is what I mean by it can be messy, right. But we keep following the truth. And we were honest with them. We were honest with women on the masterclass. And we said, you know, we trust this, we always say this, or something greater this or something better. And so there’s something better coming, we trust that we’re supposed to be in Southern California near where Ellie’s going to be living with her baby. And we’re focusing on finding a venue there now. And we still offer the event with 17 Women sign up that night, and more to come. And we’re following what’s resonant, what feels alive. And sometimes that means we cancel the thing. Sometimes that means we change the venue, or we change the start date of the program, or the topic of the program, or the topic of the call. And we keep following the thing that feels resonant, alive and true. And so it is messy. And it is so alive. Yeah, all the time.

Cait
So interesting. I think that’s so powerful. And so permission giving. And I’m like, imagining our listeners being like, wait, but you can just do that you can just change the entire program, you can just changed the start date, you can just change with the college. Like, have you ever had women call and be like, What the fuck like?

Aimee
Yes. How are you? Sure. You want to give? I want to give? Yeah. I love it. Well, I want to give a little, like, a little insight into how I was because our teachers gave a lot of permission for this, I went to a course called the Women’s course, years ago in LA, you know, early on in this journey around the feminine and orgasm and pleasure. And I remember, it was three day course, we finished we were supposed to finish at like 2pm. It was 11am on Sunday, you know, the last day of the program. And they said, you know, we were doing this program. And then they said, Okay, and that’s it. We’re done. This the end of the course. And I was like, there’s three more hours of the course. And they’re like, No, we can feel it, you’re full. The group is full, it’s actually complete. And we listen for what’s actually true and alive. We don’t just do what we’re supposed to do or what we’ve planned. And I was like what, you know, like my everything I’d known right? Especially coming from landmark, which for those of you listening who have done landmark courses or heard about it is all about like, what we call now masculine integrity, which is really important, right? There’s a place for it. And masculine integrity is like doing what you said you would do doing things on time doing things as they’re supposed to be done doing things as designed, right. So ending on time, starting on time, doing things as planned, keeping the right topic keeping the venue, right. So that’s how Ellie and I were originally trained. And that was valuable. It’s a valuable foundation to our to our life and to our business. And we’ve learned to develop the muscle around feminine integrity, which is listening to our bodies, listening to our inner truth and listening to our desire, which may go against the thing that we said originally or how things were meant to be done. And oh, this happened all the time in our training so that’s why I got used to it. I was like of course I was outraged like often Okay, outraged off Did during our training, like they would start late, they would end early, I signed up for a $16,000 retreat, which had one name. And then a couple of weeks before the retreat, they’re like, Oh, it’s a completely different topic. And I, you know, it taught me, Kate so much surrender, because the desire was strong, even if we started late or ended early, or even if the topic of the retreat changed, the desire was clear. I wanted to be there. I wanted this work, I wanted this transformation, I wanted this healing. So the desire was stronger than any inconvenience irritation, or resentment that came up in them not doing things the way I wanted them to. And it really taught me to trust the flow, trust what feels good. They, our teachers had a motto, it has to feel good to be good. And so I had to learn to start listening to the nuances of the energetics of things and feeling it like, Oh, are we full? Oh, has this actually, does this actually feel complete? Oh, does it feel right to let us connect a bit more before we dive in and begin? Even if it’s not what we’re supposed to do? Does it actually feel good and alive and true, and my body? And I started to listen to that. And that’s what we brought into our work and our programs. And for sure, it triggers our clients.

Cait
Yeah, but I think as coaches right, sometimes it’s not, it’s, it’s our job to trigger our clients or it’s our, it’s certainly not our job to make sure we do everything not to trigger them, like they are totally to transformation. And that’s going to come one way or another.

Aimee
Right, and it does push their edges. And we tend to attract a lot of women like us, right high, performing high achieving more more in their masculine energy type of women, and who want to be more embodied who want to feel their pleasure, who want to be in their sex, who want to feel alive and flirtatious and fun and receptive. And so, you know, we got to like knock them off the the norm, like the trajectory that within the specific rails that they think they need to be in the rigidity, right, and sometimes they they spiral a little and they, they flail, a little with it. But the thing is, the trust is there with us the trust, the affinity, the safety is so created in our containers and our relationship with our clients that even when they’re flailing, even when they feel out of control, even when they’re like What the hell is going on. They stay leaned in, and they’re here for the transformation, the alkalinization. And they know that we can hold them in their triggers, and whatever wound is being touched, whatever fear might be arising, and they get to the other side.

Cait
Yeah, that’s so beautiful, and so powerful. And that really speaks to it. Another question I wanted to ask you guys about, because I imagine that this work is so absolutely, alchemical and life changing for the women who stepped inside and that they are potentially, you know, really successful and more in their masculine and have those skill sets. And I’m curious, this specific trigger around surrendering and around, yielding some of the control and how you navigate because I imagined even for somebody listening who falls into that category there, like the idea of going to a live event. And you know, being asked to like, stare into someone eyes or Breathe, breathe deeply, or like touch my body or whatever, I don’t know what you guys do. And maybe you can give us like a little teaser. But like that would feel so profoundly uncomfortable. I’m curious how you guys have intentionally cultivated such a safe space where hundreds of women come back year after year, to enter into what is actually like probably for them very uncomfortable, but ultimately, so life changing, like how, how do you cultivate that emotional safety?

How Aimee and Ellie cultivated a safe space for their intimate live events

Aimee
A couple of things I would say. One is that we set a really, really solid container at the beginning of anything we do. So whether it’s a free masterclass or a weekend event that’s low cost, or our deep dive higher investment retreats or programs, we set up, you know, a container of anonymity and of one of the biggest things I think that creates safety in our community is something that we call the an attitude of approval. So we bring an attitude of approval, where we tell everyone and commit to this and practices that we will not condemn you, we will not criticize you or shame you, we will not cast you away, we will not shut you down for anything that you say or any way that you be. And then we ask everyone in the group to take on the same thing for that container. So even just for those two hours or those two days, or those you know, few months to put on a jacket of approval. So even if you disagree with each other, you just Have you with each other’s desires, actions, words, that you will still practice approving?

Like if somebody has a desire for three boyfriends and you are hardcore monogamous, and you’re like, I don’t think anyone should have multiple boyfriends. I don’t think anyone should be poly. I believe in monogamy, can you meet that person celebrate their truth, their vulnerability, their desire, meet them with approval, even if you completely disagree with them, which is a radical way to be in the world, especially now with all the polarization that we have going on all the opposition. And we hold that pole of approval and permission so fiercely in our containers that it is felt, and women naturally open, they naturally get vulnerable, because they can feel we especially are going to approve of them. And that everyone has opted in to practice approval, permission, love acceptance for one another. And the second thing I would say is that Ellie and I are really raw with our community. We’re real, we’re vulnerable. We talk about our issues, our challenges, we get insecure, like she’s married, she deals with sex and marriage and the challenges of that, right and being pregnant. I’m single, I go through my phases of being completely single averse to sex and men, having lovers having boyfriends, speaking vulnerably expressing desire when I feel fucking terrified. And we share really vulnerably every day with our community, and our clients about the real challenges of living a desire, love life, being human beings with our own insecurities, our own challenges and our own hangups. And I think that also brings people back because they can relate to us. We’re not just like these sex queens who are like, constantly orgasmic and constantly squirting and constantly having like, the most insane sex and like bringing sex magic into every single element of our business, like, no, it is a practice for us. And we’re so real about that, which I think is very relatable for so many of the women that come into our community, and not to say those beautiful orgasmic queens that are constantly orgasmic, constantly squirting and constantly practicing sex magic, aren’t amazing leaders, that we we attract a certain flavor of women and a large amount of them, because they can feel us and that like, we’re human, we’re still trying to figure this out, you know, we’re maybe a few steps ahead, and we want to bring you along for the ride. But we’re with you in the trenches of this, you know, of this adventure of living from desire.

Cait
I love that. I love that. Were you gonna say something as well, Ellie?

Ellie
Well, I think just that, you know, because I love that you mentioned like eye gazing and you know, all these things. And we’ve definitely, you know, played in that world, like Aimee lives in Bali, you know, we’ve done Tantra retreats, and these kinds of things. But really, a lot of what we do is, is super grounded. And so and fun. Like, like I’ll just tell you a little bit about at our event, you know, we do sensual movement with the women there. We teach, you know, Central movement with 300 Women in a room. And at that point, there’s so kind of open from what, from hearing our vulnerable stories from connecting with the other women and having the space and permission to really get real with each other. I mean, I think there’s so much like kind of fear and shame that people hold around sex and intimacy. And we feel so grateful for the training we got for the exercises, we learned that basically defuse shame. It’s like all these places where we feel like we’re alone fucked up, you know, I mean, I couldn’t orgasm. That’s one of the things that brought me to this work. And I thought I was broken. And I think, you know, what I’ve learned from being on this journey is a lot of women feel that way doesn’t matter if they can’t orgasm, if they can, if they’re, you know, it’s like, no matter what, there’s some place where a woman feels like she is wrong, and broken. And that’s kind of the culture that we live in teaches us that, that our bodies are wrong, you know, that, that we should be different than we are. And so that’s really what I think coming together and having this kind of container and the exercises that we do gives women is this permission, and this place to release shame and realize that there’s nothing wrong with them. And then we just got to celebrate and you know, move and dance and like have fun and connect and there’s this bubble of freedom and permission that gets created. So, you know, there might be moments or women are pushing edges, but it’s definitely Not like, you know, okay, we’re gonna eye gaze for 20 minutes.

Cait
It’s not like the feminine embodiment equivalent of like walking on hot coals. Right?

Ellie
Yeah, totally No, it’s not grow through plant. It’s grow through pleasure. I mean, that’s teaches how to embrace pleasure and remove what blocks us from pleasure. And one last thing I’ll say is just that I think so many women strike have sisterhood wounds, we certainly did. You know, and don’t feel like they belong in any group of women. And so that’s another aspect of the container we said is like, just take on, that you belong here. Like take that on. Every woman here feels like she doesn’t belong. And so what if we all just decided that we do belong? And that, for me, it’s been such a gift to have sisterhood like that. I never had that before, you know, I had friends. But it was just so different than the depth of sisterhood that this kind of work has given me. And so and women can access it literally immediately. I mean, it’s like within five minutes that we’re able to drop in like that. And that, to me, like sisterhood is such a core of what we do, you know, teaching women how to have healthy, truly connected, truly vulnerable, fulfilling relationships with other women. Because in our view, that’s the foundation for all other relationships. Like if you can heal the sisterhood wounds and do that with women, you can absolutely have the relationship with the man you want. You can heal stuff with your family, you won’t even care so much about the dysfunctional relationships you might have with your family, or that they don’t approve of you. Because you’re getting these needs met with other women, that we often go to our families or our romantic relationship to try to feed that right. Give us the approval, give us the love that we’re seeking. And really the the most effective place to get it and our experiences with other women who are who are speaking the same language.

Cait
Yes, so powerful and so true. And I love that what you said about just creating a space where everybody gets to belong, and that in and of itself is so healing. It’s the work I think all women need to do. So, guys, this is so beautiful. I feel like we could keep talking forever. But I know we’re coming up on time. I always end the show by asking if you had one piece of advice for our listeners who are female entrepreneurs, building incredible businesses, women on the rise, what would you share? Whoo, just the first thing that comes to your mind, don’t think about it too much.

Aimee
Yeah, the thing that comes to me is just to take the risk, we talk about pussy a lot, you know, put the power and your Yoni and your body and your feminine energy, your power source, and to follow your pussy like to follow your body and the thing that makes you feel alive. The thing that’s like, oh my god, it’s like electric and energetic and it’s like, oh my god, the buzzing the the tingling, the oh my god, I kind of feel sick, it feels like I’m gonna fall off a cliff. If I do this. Follow that. And trust that, like, when you fall off the cliff, you’re gonna have the parachute. That to take the risk to take the leap into business or moving across the world or telling the guy or girl that you like them or, you know, just embracing the thing that you’re that you’re that you’re considering. Go for it, follow the desire and trust that no matter how it goes, you cannot go wrong. It will take you to the next right step, it will take you to the next right thing. And that desire is always right. Your desire is always write.

Ellie
Love that so beautiful. And mine is I love that. Yeah, your desire is always right and will ultimately help everyone around you rise, even if they’re confronted at first, which they probably will be if you’re truly following your desire. Mine is to not get hung up on meeting to be fully healed. In order to help others in the way that you are desiring to or feeling called to. You will heal your healing will probably exponentially you know increase as you are actually helping and guiding others and as Aimee spoke to, you know, so beautifully. We we teach what we most need to learn. And so if we were waiting to be you know, the fully healed like fully orgasmic whatever image we have in our mind that we think coaches in the intimacy realm look like we Never would have started. And so yeah, don’t get don’t don’t let that hold you back and just get into action is really my, my biggest thing like, I think it’s so there’s so many distractions these days are so many reasons not to do something, it’s so easy to convince yourself that again, you need more healing or you need to do this blah, blah. And like, in my experience, creativity heals, like getting into what you are here to do. Taking the action, doing the things is how you become the woman that you want to be, as opposed to waiting to be her in order to do the thing.

Cait
Yes. Ah, so good. So good. Both of you. I love those nuggets so much, Aimee and Ellie, thank you so much for being here today. For our listeners who want to follow along with you guys know about what you have coming up, tell us what’s coming down the pipeline, and also where we can follow along with both of you and stay connected.

Aimee
Amazing. Well, you can follow us on Instagram at desire on fire and at Aimee Batuski and Ellie Montgomery. And our website’s desire on fire or podcast is desire on fire. Pretty easy, just desire on fire across the board. And we have our invitation for all of you listening, if you resonated with this conversation is to join us live in most likely Southern California, October 1 And second, for our desire on fire experience. It is not too early to sign up even though we’re solidifying the venue it’s happening we already have 60 Women signed up we’re gonna have 500 So please join us and you can go to desire on fire live.com to sign up, and you can use the code Cait get $500 off. It’s a $695 weekend and you can get a ticket for $195 If you use the code Cait. So we want to make this as accessible as possible and easy as possible for people to say yes, even if you have to fly across the US with world to be there. We don’t want the ticket price to get in the way for anyone. So join us October 1 and second at the Desire and Fire experience we would love to meet you.

Cait
So amazing. Oh my god, that’s so generous. Thank you so much. $500 off guys. That’s like basically the whole cost of the ticket. So join. Amazing. And I know you guys are just gonna rock the house. Thank you so much for your time today and for sharing with us and for being a guest on the show.

Ellie
Thank you. Thank you Cait.