Cait: Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of the Born to Rise podcast. You guys, I am so excited to introduce you to our amazing guest today–Jackie. Jackie, thank you so much for being here.

Jackie: Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.

Cait: Okay, I just feel like you are such a boss in this industry. Everyone you know and their mom likes to talk about business strategy and energetics. But I just feel like the way that you are approaching this conversation of the importance of energy and energetics to elevate in business to elevate in life is so fresh. It’s so different. And I am just so excited to dive into all the things today on the show. But for our listeners who have not heard of you who are living under a rock, tell us about you my love, tell us what you do and how you really came into this space because I think your story of how you got into online business where you transition from is just so interesting.

Jackie: So I call myself a wealth mindset healing expert meets a high ticket business strategy coach. And I basically help activate the innate power that I believe is already present within women, and has been sort of pushed down whether that was from family upbringing, societal impact constructs, even old corporate ways of being that make women question themselves make women quit, lack trust in themselves or be fully frickin embodied and expressed. And that is what I mean by magnetism and energy. It’s about the way that you’re feeling about yourself. And when I when you’re in that state, and you can kind of direct and ground some of that energy through strategy, you will end up with a very successful sustainable business. That doesn’t mean that every day is amazing. And so I bring in tools we do some deeper healing. I work with EFT I’m a certified tapping practitioner. And that’s sort of my standpoint there’s a balance between looking at the vision, looking at impact positive affirmation, if you will, there’s a balance between moving yourself into that energy, while also addressing some of the things that have happened to you before they’re imprinted in your body and your nervous system that are going to impact the way that you show up.

Why Women Evaluate their Strategy Before their Energy

Cait: I think that is so… I mean yes, yes, yes, all day, every day. I know anyone who listens to this show knows that I jam all the time on kind of the marriage of energy and strategy. But I think like your approach to this and the way that you just said that so beautifully of like, the almost like unconscious residue that we carry, and the imprints of things that have happened to us. I can imagine that you get a lot of clients or women in your programs, people that you serve, who are, you know, looking at, well, what am I doing wrong here? What’s wrong with the offer, or it must be a price point, or maybe it’s, you know, XYZ things and they’re not recognizing that there’s a deeper kind of stagnation or block that they’re not even looking at that is actually impacting their ability to generate money and receive and hit results. And why is that? Like, why do you think that most women tend to look first at you know, the strategy or the logistics of business before they’re willing to kind of go and unpeel some of those deeper layers? 

Jackie: Well, first off, I say that if you’re actually placing too much emphasis, and perfectionism around the strategy, that’s a clear indicator that you’ve got mindset shit. Because I believe that, you know, we can have mentorship, we can have proven strategies, we can understand marketing and sales and have, you know, really good structures around those. And we can also bring our own flavor to it, and our own juice and our own energy and our own magic to it. And that’s when things really get activated when you’re in alignment when your own prana is like flowing into these things. And if you are in perfectionism attachment to like all the strategies having to be the cookie-cutter way, the way that maybe your coaches doing it or way your competitors doing it or your friend in the same industry, it will not have the same impact. Because to me, the formula is what you believe you receive. And the action which is the strategy links the two and the action itself doesn’t really freakin matter. It’s just a conduit to bring you the stuff that you believe in. So at the core at the energy like the center is, it is energy at the center, it’s your beliefs, it’s your mindset. And, you know, when I talk about energy, it’s thought, and it’s emotion. So whatever you’re thinking about, what do you think is possible in your business, in society in your life, and the way that your clients buy from you and the way that your clients experience your offers, whatever you believe is what you will end up perceiving. And a large part of that, too, is also the lens through which you will perceive the stuff you’re receiving.

Cait: And say more about that last piece that’s really interesting, the lens through which because I think most of us are just like, What do you mean, the lens? I’m just perceiving? I don’t have a lens. 

Jackie: The same situation can feel completely different to different people. Interestingly, like this week, I had somebody take one a quiz I have set up that’s like, what is your block to success? And the answer that this person got was that she doesn’t feel like she’s enough. It’s one of the core things that I think many people can relate to. And I think all of us have it to some degree. And especially when we’re leveling up, it seems to like rear its ugly head again. And she’s like, she wrote me back. And she’s like, Oh, my God, this is spot on. And I want to have the successes that everyone else has. And I’m like, you are having successes, what you want is actually to feel the way you think those other people are feeling when they’re experiencing their success. And because you don’t feel like you’re enough, you’re not letting yourself celebrate your success, receive your success, acknowledge it, think it’s enough, it’s like the bucket with a hole at the bottom, she like gets in success, and it doesn’t stick, it just like comes out through the bottom. So she’s having the same experiences as probably the people that she’s, you know, honing in on on the ground, but she’s not feeling the same way. So that’s like the lens, the lenses of like, I’m not good enough, or I’m not lovable, or I can’t trust other people, or scarcity, like those are the lenses through which we experience situations.

Cait: I love that so much. And I think that is so relevant for it really anybody at any stage of business, wherever you’re at, like the thing of looking at other people, looking at where someone else has gotten to in their entrepreneurial journey and thinking that’s the place, If only I get there, if only I have that result. But it’s such a potent reminder. Like, it’s not just about the numbers that you’re hitting, but it’s about how you’re feeling because the way to keep rising is to cultivate the feelings. I mean, what I’m hearing from you is like to actually allow yourself to drop into the success that you’re already having. And it’s like it’s so backward for so many of us who are programmed to just keep looking at the bar that we’re not yet at the place that we’re not yet at and thinking when I arrived but it’s it’s like a never receding, ever-receding horizon line, isn’t it?

Jackie: Totally. Like we’re never really arriving anywhere. We’re in a constant state of expansion. We’re constantly on the journey. So you might as well get real comfortable enjoying it along the right.

Jackie’s Entrepreneurial Journey

Cait: Oh my god. so so good. Well, I want to go to your journey now like you, you know, I know have described like coming from first-generation scarcity to going to Park Avenue to now having like an exploded business generating 300k in a year having a $72,000 day like, talk us through your own expansive journey, because that is just so incredible. Seriously.

Jackie: Yeah, so I’m first-generation American, I will get teary-eyed every time I say this out loud. But my parents are political refugees. They literally my mom left like 10 days after her country was invaded. And basically, they like enforced communism to a big degree. And, you know, it’s interesting, because a lot of my clients actually are first-generation and you know, you attract who you are. So I attract a lot of people with first-generation experiences and also like, post-communist experiences. There’s a lot of scarcity. There’s a lot of like, woe is me martyr ism, we never have enough, you know, literally my cousin that’s my age has like, stood in line, like she still lives back in the Czech Republic, I stood in line as a little girl to get an orange, you know, around Christmas. So we’re talking about like, stuff is just not available. And I was really lucky that my parents held this vision for themselves and ended up coming to the States. 

And, you know, they worked really hard. And they instilled these, like, beliefs within me and my brother, that, you know, the harder that you work, the more success that you have, be safe, pick the safe career, go to college, you know, do all the things like on the corporate ladder and all of those things that we were meant to fulfill as the first generation right? We’re supposed to have it better, but you end up learning through explicit observation and also through like, energetic like osmosis, right? All of the ways that they show up in life and the way that they were raised and they had like the scarcity and I always say like, my mom has like coupon cutting energy, right so she will spend all the energy In the world, to save $1 my dad will go like to five different stores to shop around to like, save 20 bucks. But to put that energy and refocus it into something that’s limitless like entrepreneurship now, that’s too risky. That’s too scary. Just do what you were told. 

So I did, I did what I was told I went to college, I was the first person in my family to graduate from college. And I wanted to actually dabble in the arts and in like cosmetology. And I’m like, I called her she’s like, No, you can’t go to college and study makeup, right? So she’s like, just do accounting. That’s very sound, and you can do anything you want with it. And so I became an accountant. And I left college with a job thinking I was making great money, you know, 50k a year, I guess, a 21 year like sights for that, and then spent the next 15 years on a corporate ladder, seven years in the Big Four public accounting firm, like working around the world. And then I went to a really small private equity firm, and private equity. I describe it as Richard Gere’s character in Pretty Women, if you don’t know what I mean, it’s a bunch of rich guys in suits that are buying and selling cars. And it’s, it’s super interesting, I actually really loved it. And the money in it is off the charts. So, you know, literally working next to people that like we’re buying planes and buying Ferraris, and Rolls Royces and living like in three-floor apartments and Tribeca and things like that, or, you know, wiring a million dollars after we sold something to a 23-year-old. That was on the team. So I really got exposed to large sums of money, I think that was like actually really helpful for me to see our economy like at that level to see what it’s like when you have investments of people committing to invest in your fund at 200 million, you know, just to see it sort of those things like flying around, and I got really comfortable with it. And it also everyone in this firm was almost like, wasn’t born with money. And so it was really nice to also see like, money doesn’t make the person, right. And it’s just like, they were really comfortable and super generous with everything. And every, like, we were super down to earth. And I left court like I left that lifestyle. And that job, literally, like an office on Park Avenue. And I left that to pursue tapping at that point in time, when…

Cait: I just want to stop you there. First of all, like the courage of your parents your courage to like, you know, just be the first person in your family to graduate from college and totally hear that, like, not only pressure but probably that sense of responsibility to pursue like a stable career in accounting and the way that you elevated and rose inside of that industry. And like to you know, this degree of playing shoulder to shoulder with such like heavy hitters and like at a serious level of scale in this private equity company. I can’t imagine that the decision then to leave like because, quote, unquote, you’re like playing at the top, you’re playing with these top dogs. Like, what was that like? Was that like shitting your pants scary? Like what tell us about because I imagine like, if you talk to your mom, like okay, cool, like, you know, private jets, blah, blah, blah, and I’m leaving to go pursue tapping was she like, what are you doing? You should have just gotten the makeup route. Like, what was that like?

Jackie: Yeah, she didn’t understand at all. I had a lot of like conversations where she would say the right thing, but the energy behind it was just like, Imma let you go do what you need to do. But you know, to me like, honestly, I was very naive.  And if it wasn’t for the naivety, I don’t think I would have laughed. But I was like, there was every the highest part of me knew and said it repeatedly. This is a million-dollar business. I had no idea how. Because at that point in time, the only model I knew for tapping was a very therapist base model of like, you charge 150 bucks an hour and somebody comes and taps with you. I also was very naive to think everybody in their mother wanted tapping. And everyone in their mother wanted to feel better. Why would you want to feel better? Right? I thought literally when I was still working and making my own Squarespace site all Saturday, that when I pressed publish at 11pm that the like influx of clients just come pouring in. So yeah, I was definitely naive about it. And at the same time, I couldn’t deny that that was the next move. Because it had been out nobody from my own firm. Right? Don’t think they will. But I couldn’t like for a while, like I literally couldn’t get through the day, I was literally doing not doing my job for like a good six months later, it was like painful, I would have to close my office door and like try to stare at an Excel spreadsheet, like will myself to look at it.

Cait: Because you were just burnt out or because your heart wasn’t in it, like what was going on?

Jackie: Like burnt out 15 years of like working like crazy. Just no connection, no feeling knowing I have a higher purpose than this being like, this is just lame, what were like boiling those down to, and actually like one of the owners of the firm, when I finally like when he and I were kind of talking through my boss about my exit. I was like, yeah, we’re kind of talking through a middleman. Let’s wait. It’s a small firm. So I’m like, let’s just talk together. And he comes into my office, he closes the door. And he goes, I mean this with, you know, a really positive intent. I never want to see you in front of a spreadsheet again, in your life, you are not meant for spreadsheets, so he knew it like that everyone knew it. So that was very reassuring.

Having the Courage to Pursue Your Dreams

Cait: Well that to have that support from you know, if when your boss is telling you that and knows that but at the same time, like of course you’re such an asset, they don’t want to lose you, but it took you having the courage to do that. And I just really wanted to like zoom in on that part of your journey, Jackie, because I think that, you know, we have listeners at every stage people who are already, you know, multiple six-figure business owners and people who are still like sitting in their equivalent of your office on Park avenue like, hating what they’re doing feeling burnt out. And knowing there’s a better way and like, you know, here you are as living proof. And I think it’s so easy to look at, you know, people like you who have just a thriving super successful business who built that success so quickly, quote, unquote, but you know, think, oh, they just had it easy all along, but like, no, you were quaking in your boots, like making that leave, you had to have that difficult conversation with your boss, and like that risk, and that courage has played off, just paid off. So so much.

Jackie: It did, because I stuck with it. But the first like, year that I was sort of half I kind of went part-time first and kind of like weaning my way out. I think I made 14k that year in the business, and then the first full year of full-time, I made 25k for the entire year. So you know, it was definitely was not an instant, you know, multiple six-figure upgrade that happens in like your three if, if you will, you know your to have full time. Yeah, there were a lot of moments of crying on the couch, a lot of like, how do I make this work? How can this isn’t working? Let’s try this. Let’s try that frustration being like, okay, that with the like five clients I have, they’re doing great, why aren’t there more people that want to work with me chasing a lot of things, and also probably like recovering from burnout a bit, you know, my body not really being like, totally in the receptive mode of I want more clients, I want more work right now. So I think I needed to, like, move through that as well.

The State of Magnetism and Attraction

Cait: 100% And I mean, that just makes so much sense, especially like looking at energy, as we were just talking about earlier. Like, it’s not just what you’re doing. So if you’re taking all the marketing boxes, but your energy isn’t aligned to it, you know, of course, it’s not going to be generating and what I think like, this is just such a perfect segue, Jackie, because I know you, you know, talk so much and teach so much. And you’re just such an expert in, you know, this space of magnetism and like really having you magnetism on an energetic level, but also on a marketing level. And I’m curious for you, like what you would attribute things like, you know, zero to Okay, so not zero necessarily, because you’d had a 25k a year but going from 25k a year to a year where you make $72,000 in a day to making $300,000 in a year, like, what is responsible for that, like level of uptick. And I think, you know, especially looking at it through, you know, as it relates to magnetism and not being in that chase in that hunt, but really more of that kind of lean back and attract vibe.

Jackie: I mean, there are so many things like exactly what you’re saying, like not to be in the energy of chasing, I think when we’re in the energy of chasing, it’s like, again, it’s scarcity. It’s proving it’s pushing and literally I like envision energy, right? So if we’re like, pushing out, then we have no channel to receive. Like, it’s like we’re literally pushing the stuff away and we have to be in like a receptive mode. I think so many people are really good at manifestation. They like have the vision, they know how to go after it. They know how to create it, but then they don’t know how to receive it.

Cait: I just wanted to kind of piggyback off that, because I think that’s so interesting, like, you know, we think of manifestation is like go out and create your Pinterest board and like that’s the thing that’s gonna help you manifest your dreams. And it’s like, the one side of the equation is all the action but this other side I feel like is much harder for people to allow themselves to ease into and I’m curious what you say to clients that you have who are good at the like, quote-unquote, masculine side the doing the Pinterest board creation, the all of the writing it down, but not so good at the like being in that liminal space before the thing they want has arrived?

Jackie: Yeah, the big piece of it is subconscious beliefs, like do you really genuinely feel? worthy? Do you feel deserving? Do you feel safe to receive, people can speak more freely and identify a fear of failure. People say all day long, they want success. But what they don’t understand is that underneath, they have a fear of it. They have a fear of like, Well, when I have more success, I’ll be burnt out, I will have more visibility, I will have more responsibility, my relationships will suffer all out, earn my partner and they’ll freak out. Like, all of these little things are impacting the actions that you’re taking are impacting your ability to receive. So it’s like it’s really going into that piece. And so I think you have to work on the subconscious beliefs and shifting those. And then the other way is to use things like Pinterest boards, visualization, mind movies, things like that. Because if you can familiarize yourself with the ultimate thing that you want, your body will get an imprint, your brain will get an imprint, literally, your brain doesn’t know the difference between what you see in real life and what your mind’s eye sees. If you close your eyes and imagine something, think it’s real. So you can normalize the receiving and the halving of the thing.

Cait: I love that so much. So it’s not just like, it’s actually not just woo-woo, it sounds like there’s a lot of actual like science. Reprogramming yourself, like actually trick your brain into feeling those feelings.

Jackie: you literally can create a feeling within yourself. Like, right now, if I had you close your eyes and tell you to, like, feel what it feels like in your body to feel confident, you could feel that what that feels like, feeling your body right now, like, what it feels like to be sad, you would feel that too, right. So utilizing, you know, we can create the imprint of the emotion that we want, then you take emotion and vision and put that together. And you’re literally sending instructions to the quantum, like, the energy field around you.

Cait: So powerful. See, this is why I say like, you’re doing stuff that’s so interesting in this space, because, you know, there’s mindset and then there’s mindset, right? And I think this stuff that even just like literally closing my eyes and cultivating that feeling of confidence or sadness, like you’re so right, can totally, totally feel that and, and yet, again, I think that there’s a lot of people who kind of skim the surface on the mindset piece and don’t go to those deeper layers like in this conversation.

Jackie: It’s foundational to everything because it drives all of your actions and your consistency and your and consistency to me is like, you don’t just everyone can hit a frickin 10k a month everyone can push to that everyone can probably with some focus push to a six-figure year too. But if you want to go beyond that, it’s all gonna come down to mindset, the beliefs about yourself, and not so much of the doing but the being.

How Jackie Uses Magnetism in Her Work With Clients

Cait: I love that so much. And I’m really curious how this relates to, because I know you obviously have amazing programs where you dive deeper into this you work with clients privately, you know, you’ve got a high-level offer. I’m also curious about how, in the work that you do with clients, whether that’s in you know, larger group programs or shorter-term group programs, like how your work brings in grounds this mindset like foundation to marketing because I think a lot of people like they feel like it’s either or right it’s like the spreadsheets and the templates, or it’s the like visualization and tapping right like there’s this divide and I know that you’re such a queen at combining the two because it is both it’s not just one or the other but I’m curious for people who are like Okay, got it like mindset visualizing cultivating feeling states that’s where you really need to focus but then they’re like, Oh, wait, hang on, like do I just like sit in my room with like, you know, you know, monster music playing all day or like how do I actually take these tools to then grow the business?

Jackie: Honestly, when you get really good at the strategy pieces, marketing and all that it helps the mindset because you actually have clarity and you know what you’re doing and that will help you focus and feel more confident. So like under the umbrella of coach, I can call myself a coach. But like there are different aspects of that that are going on within the programs. And they’re like one on one coaching that I offer. Coaching is like giving somebody back their power, right, empowering them. And I think I do a lot of that. But in the beginning, a lot of people want the answers. And so that’s where with the strategy, I will help people with being like a mentor, which is somebody who’s walked like a few steps ahead of you. So I have like, built a business now. Like, I know what works, I will share with them, what I work, what did I shift around my marketing and my messaging, what I shift around my sales, how I like did my pricing structure, my product suite, like all of that type of stuff, and I will help them implement it. So if there they have a different ideal client than I do, like, I will still help them write copy. And you know, understand how to connect with that particular client how to like, my big thing is like really in the copy connecting on like, the feelings level with them. And then there’s also the mindset and the healing. So a lot of my clients are always like, You’re the One Stop Shop, you’re like, you kind of combine this all like very flawlessly as well. I’m laughing because earlier today, I was literally working with a client and we were discussing lines of credit, and like how they work and how to bring debt into her business, so that she can hire more employees versus like equity versus so like, the on the very extreme, there’s stuff like that. And then I work with a lot of also like, coaches like me that, as I have, you know, have my own business, that’s a similar structure. So I can sit there and help you implement your own strategies. And I can also do it very much like, within the framework of what I do, it has to feel in alignment for you.

Cait: 100% and I love this conversation and how you’re bringing up the difference between like coaching and mentoring and consulting and this and then obviously like, the more like healer like pure energetic side and the value of being able to connect with and serve clients on all those different levels. Because I think, I mean, I see this as well in business as a lot of times it’s like I want to coach but sometimes what you want from your coach is more consulting sometimes what you actually want from your coach is like copy bound sometimes what you want from your coach is his mentorship and sometimes you just want like a kick in the ass and a high five and like someone like fuckin cheering you on and reminding you of what you’re capable of. And sometimes you want someone guiding you through your, inner childhood drama, and how that’s stopping you from receiving money. So like, yes to the One Stop Shop. I love that and that you, you know, really touch on all of those different levels.

Jackie: I have another client I was working with this week, she wanted to lower her prices, because no one was coming. And I was like, okay, and she’s like telling me She’s like, yeah, I had a lot of clients at that lower price though before, and I felt burnt out. I’m like, okay, so hold up, you are not an energetic alignment at that lower price. That’s why no one’s coming at the lower price. Don’t even think about lowering it. And we went through like a bunch of tapping work on it. And then I had her like, use her body to set the price and like she ended up raising her prices. So yes, there are strategies and like a process that I bring somebody through so that they understand what their offer a product, what is that doing to their ideal client’s life? What is the impact? What is the impact over a long period of time that that opens up for them when they like have that transformation or that problem? Like they have a solution for it? And then also looking at it from like that person’s perspective of like, Okay, what did you go through in your life? What certifications did you get? What are all the life experiences that brought you to this moment for you to be the curator of this person’s journey that got just got condensed in terms of the deliverable, like the time avoiding mistakes, avoiding losing money like for this client, so all of that is like the strategic stuff around understanding what is the value of what you offer? But if you don’t believe it, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what price tag I tell you to put on it, or you think in your mind that it should have on it, you’ll never sell it. So you’ve got to, you’ve got to believe it, and you’ve got to embody it. And that’s where a lot of the energy work comes in with the strategy work.

What is Tapping and EFT?

Cait: That’s such a perfect like very practical example. And thank you for giving us such an explicit example of how it relates to business in terms of pricing, like how energy and strategy really need to work hand in hand in order to set something that’s not just like, quote-unquote, effective, but that actually generates money and results. And that’s such a such a great example of that. I realized that you know, a lot of our listeners may not know we’ve used the phrase a couple of times in here tapping or EFT. But for people who don’t know what that is, can you just give us an overview. I know that’s a part of what you do and nowhere near the greater whole, but I think there may be people who don’t even know what that means totally.

Jackie: It’s a it’s a tool that I use that I studied and became certified in and it’s based on acupuncture. It’s sort of like emotional acupuncture. So instead of using a needle on different points, if you went to an acupuncturist we just use Is our fingertips and we literally tap on certain points on the face and on the body. And what it does is it sends a calming signal to your fight or flight. So the thing that you’re scared of the thing that you believe that sort of freeing up that chaotic energy, you’re sending a calming signal to that part of your brain, it rewires the brain, it literally creates like new neural pathways, which are the ways that we think so it breaks you out of like old patterns and old ways of thinking. And it also helps to move energy and emotion through the body. So if I said, like, think about, you know, a painful moment from childhood, like maybe you know, your, your dog passed away, or something like you right now could probably feel like a pit in your stomach or some sort of tightness in your chest. So the tapping helps move that which has been stored in your body out. And so I also really believe that the subconscious is running everything, right, like 95% of our thoughts. But the subconscious doesn’t live in the mind, the subconscious lives in the body, it lives in our nervous system, which is why when you think about, Oh, I got to do public speaking, or I got to have the sales call, or, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to put this post out because it’s edgy. And you feel that in your body. That’s the subconscious beliefs that are coming up. So I really love tapping over talking alone, because the tapping gets into the body, and it gets into the energy field, plus, we’re doing the talking and changing the way we think. So it’s, to me, it’s just, I mean, there’s a lot of research around, it’s just so much more effective than traditional approaches of just chatting through things.

The Four Components that is Built-in to Jackie’s Programs

Cait: So, so powerful, thank you, I didn’t even really know all of that backstory around, you know, how it’s used, and that it’s related to acupuncture. But it makes so much sense. And so powerful to think about, I mean, those examples you gave before a sales call before live stream before, you know, anything that we’re doing that requires an output of energy where we could inadvertently without even knowing it kind of be blocked, or be sort of how that can sort of facilitate and move things through. And I think that’s so amazing that you weave that in with your programs and the things that you do provide, you know, not just like a talk talking containers, as you say, but having space for people to tap in. I always say that what I’m going to dive into today deeper into those deeper layers and levels. Yes, what’s going on?

Jackie: To me, it’s so important. And like every one of my offerings has the four components built-in has the traditional coaching, the strategy type consulting, the mentorship, you know, implementation on the online, like five things, but and the tapping, whether you’re working with me privately, whether you’re in my hire my program, that’s for people that are scaling to multiple, six figures, and I have a new program coming out that is for more of people that are newer to entrepreneurship, it’s all the stuff I wish I knew when I was crying on the couch for two years. And it is like the two things I know, I think we didn’t get to this before. But it’s the two things that were the game changers in going from the 25, you know, $1,000 a year to blowing everything up.

Cait: Oh my god, tell us about this program, tell us about these things. Tell us all the things.

Jackie: I think for newer entrepreneurs, or for people that have been in it for a while like I was, and it’s just not clicking, it comes down to two things. And its messaging and mindset. So mindset at every level, but it’s different beliefs and different, you know, like, skeletons come out of the closet. Some people say like, the new level new devil, I say new level new depth, right. So it’s like, so there to me are consistent beliefs that I see that hold back newer entrepreneurs, they don’t fully believe in themselves, they don’t fully believe in the offer that they have. They don’t trust that the people who come into their containers, will get the results. So they feel very responsible for the results. They don’t want to like claim it or talk about it in their messaging at all. So what happens in their messaging, then is that they don’t come off as an authority. They don’t come off as an expert. A lot of times too, they end up trying to be something that they’re not trying to be like their competitors trying to be cooler. And what happens is just kind of comes off. It’s not relatable at all. It’s almost like repelling people. And so that’s a lot of like the mindset stuff to that, that’s really keeping you from showing up like fully embodied, fully expressed, but balancing that with the appropriate messaging. Because at the end of the day, if you are in a service-based business, it’s not a thing about you. It’s about your ideal client, right? And so for so long it like when I was writing messaging when it wasn’t clicking, and I was throwing up like roomy quotes and things like that because I thought I had to be, inspirational. And I would walk around town and be like, what am I going to write about today about myself. None of that matters. You have to Literally know your client better than they know themselves, you have to know what they think when they wake up in the middle of the night when they wake up in the morning when they’re going to bed at night. You got to understand what and not say it in an expert language. esoteric, one of the examples I use is don’t report the news. Right? Because, yeah, news people are like, this is what happened over here. And it’s a very like high level. And then what happens, they interview the person and the person says it in their own words, you got to speak the words your clients, say you got to like, understand how they see the patterns showing up in their life. Now they see the challenges like what is the observable evidence, but they are aware like, Oh, my gosh, Kate knows what I’m thinking knows what I’m going through. She’s the woman I’m going to turn to to help me with this thing. And then really drawing out and totally understanding what are the results that your clients bought? And not just the results? But what are the results? Let them do? What does that like actually change in their life? What is like that needy thing that they want to, sink their teeth into? And I know, for me, I was doing mindset work for entrepreneurs. That was like, I thought, Okay, well, my ideal client is an entrepreneur. There are a zillion types of entrepreneurs and stages of entrepreneurs. And anytime I have a program that’s designed for a different person, I have to speak to a different person. So they know that this is the thing for them. And I was going through the whole stage of like, never wanting to claim the results, never knowing how to actually put words I would just be like, so you can get results. Come work on your mindset to get results. And like I remember an old coach being like, well, what are the results. And you know, at the end of the day, most entrepreneurs want to make more money, they want to feel good doing it. They want to serve more clients, they want to have more impact. Those are just like a few. But like the way you speak about that so that it really fires someone else up. And the last thing is like really showing off that it’s not about you like we said, Yes, we all have our own, like, Hero’s Journey origin story. But can you do that for other people? Are you a place of empowerment? Do you have like evidence that you create those results? 

Cait: So I’m like literally imagining so many entrepreneurs who are, they’re newer or pivoting or things aren’t working, like going back and re-listening to that five minutes, like and writing notes like 10 times over because Yeah, you got the mini-course here. Oh my god, that’s so good. But it’s so true. And I just love I mean, those beliefs of like, I’m not good enough, or I need you to know, more I’m, you know, I can’t really speak in the voice of authority. No one’s given me that permission yet, or whatever, lay those narratives and I just love how you just not only describe this now but like built an entire program to help people solve this Thank the Lord because there are so many people I think, who stay stuck, like those beliefs, stop them from writing that copy. And then it’s like, oh, I’m not good enough. Or see, look, the markets too saturated, and we’d like, we believe the wrong like we believe the lie, we believe the wrong thing lies. Exactly here. It’s so freaking true. And, and I just agree with you 1,000,000% about the messaging thing. It’s like I think about I use the analogy of like a radio broadcast. And if you’re broadcasting at this frequency, that’s like not at all what your people are able to hear like, of course, it’s not going to land and convert Of course, it’s not going to do the job. And so I love Love, love that you have built something that solves that problem, like to a tee those two things, because I think you’re so right. And that, you know, and I know we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording today, but about, you know, the foundation’s like foundations of mindset and of messaging, like abso-freaking-lutely you need them to get to six figures, but like spoiler alert, you’re gonna come back to those foundations, every single layer of business as you rise, like you just, it is everything at every single layer.

Jackie: Yeah, I got a like a voice dm from an old client that finished my group program. She actually also coached with me privately before that, and she’s just wrapping up her group program, which is for like, it’s like Relationship Coaching for Hi, I don’t know what’s called, like women that are like 35 that have it all in their life, except they don’t have their partner. And she’s like, Oh, my Gods container was so juicy. So she gave me this voice and she’s like, I just got so teary-eyed. And so like, Oh my god, I’m living my purpose. Thank God for you. Thank God, we did this work. And we did so much like internal work around shame and limiting beliefs. And, you know, when we first met, she was like, I was doing all the networking, I’d have the coffee, but I forgot I would forget to mention my business, right. So another like thing that people are like I want to be salesy in the beginning. And she’s like, I just know that I want to 5x this program. And she’s like, and I went back to everything that you taught me and taught us like inside the program, and she’s like, and I just realized, like, I can do this. Like I have the frameworks and So to your point, like It is strategy to a certain point and then after that, it’s like all beliefs that’s just like the gasoline that’s gonna just keep firing up the strategy. Once you get the strategy working, you’re like sailing from there it is. The hardest point is like building a business to like 50k 50k to a million. That’s fast, the easier part.

Cait: So true. I love that. So, so much. And I love that you mentioned that specific example with that client. Because one of the things I’m sure this annoys you as well, one of my pet peeves in this industry is when people say like, Oh, well, only business coaches can scale, you know, have success in business. And I love that you just gave an example of like relationship, a relationship coach client, and, you know, you serve women who don’t, aren’t just business coaches, and that, like this is so applicable for, you know, multiple different types of business models.

Jackie: Totally. I actually like working with what I call lightworkers and created even more the business coaches, but I do have a lot of business coach clients as well. Yeah, I would I love I love working with people that like, have intuitive gifts or psychics like those types, and then they help people in business. I’ve loved that too, when they can, like, kind of marry their special thing, as well.

How Overcoming Challenges Lead to Breakthroughs

Cait: Jackie, one of the questions that I ask everybody who comes on the show is, you know, obviously the show’s called borns rise. And I am you know, just such a believer in highlighting the parts of our journey that maybe not everybody sees, and, you know, to rise up to a level of success, like what you have created, you know, people see the highlight reel, they hear the inspiration, you’ve already shared a lot with us today. But I’m curious if there has been a moment in your journey. You know, I’m sure there have been more than one. But if there’s a moment that really stands out for you, that was a challenge that you had to overcome a time that you thought well back like maybe this is the end of the line for me maybe I’m just gonna stop here and how you rose up from that and have continued to the success that you’ve created for yourself today.

Jackie: I’ve had all the usual stories in the first two years of like, no one showed up to the webinar, like that sort of stuff. But I feel like I’m being called to share this story. And I don’t know if I ever got it felt like a moment of like, I’m not moving forward. But I do want to stress this. And I think it’s really important to share the story with your audience. So I do ayahuasca on occasion, as part of my healing toolkit, and have a lot of reverence for that. So I went and did a ceremony. About a year, a year and a half ago, maybe. And I had like, an amazing journey. I came back six weeks, I was on high. I was like, nobody can tell me that I’m not the, you know, the greatest shit in this world. And I was like, Alright, I’m ready for my booster shots. So like, you know, seven months later, I’m like, Alright, go back to the temple. I can’t wait to get like another one of these fired up. I’m going to launch my first ever group program. I totally need this special sauce. And what happens up there?

I had a journey to be reckoned with. I was on my hands and knees and things coming out from every angle for like five hours just in pure grief. And this depressive grief lasted like, a good five or so weeks after I came home. And I was on Insta, then like yeah, I’m going up to the temple guys can’t wait to share all this with you. And your home was like, I really don’t feel good. You know. And I’m in the middle of lunch. And I literally had days where I would just like write a few emails or a post or two and go back to the couch and just be with myself. And what I asked for in this journey, could you set an intention before you take the medicine? Was I really asked for it? I was like, show me what I need to release to serve more women.

But what the grief taught me in the like, couple of weeks after while I was like running my business and be with myself in this grief was that I I allowed all of it like I never said to myself like you need to not feel this grief or you which is what I would do probably back in the day especially when I was in the like very like masculine corporate structures where there’s like no room to cry. I just cry every day on my couch. And I just let myself be in it as long as I need it to be in it for it to dissolve itself or to heal itself. And I was talking about this with one of my healers, because I ended up still having a 50k launch, first ever program. And people say you got to be high vibe, people got to say that you got to be on the energetic frequency in order for all that good stuff to come in. And so what people end up doing is they push their, they’re like, not good feeling feelings down. And they think that that’s how they’re going to end up like high vibe. But what ends up happening is like, it’s just stored in your body, it manifests some other way, sickness, whatever, all that type of stuff. And I truly believe that it’s about it’s not about your emotions, and how you feel, it’s about how you consciously choose to be with your emotions, the good ones and the bad ones. And it’s that conscious decision of how you’re treating yourself. That is the energetic alignment to things, right. So I just chose to be with myself through all of that, and learns how to soothe myself, learn how to be compassionate with myself, learn how to like, give space to myself, to go through all of this stuff. And so I think like that was probably one of the lowest moments of last year, and yet at the same time, like one of the greatest experiences and teachings.

Cait: But it’s so beautiful. And thank you so much for giving us a really so much deeper answer than just no one showed up to my webinar, because we’ve all we’ve all been there. But that I mean, just the power of being able to be with yourself. I think that that, again, coming it all coming back to that center point of energy and feeling state is just so so powerful. And I think that, yeah, it’s really brave to give yourself permission and willingness to go there and be with yourself to emerge so beautifully on the other side. So thank you so much for sharing that. And Jackie, before I ask where we can stay connected to you and all the things. The question I love to you know, just ask at the end of these interviews is if there’s just any, any words of encouragement, any piece of advice that you have, for our listeners who are in their process of rising up and building, they’re booked out business?

Jackie: The universe is always an expansion, you are a part of the universe. So you are always expanding as well. And you may not see what you’re going through right now as like a part of that. But it is like, you have to experience contraction, sometimes to have more ultimate expansion, you have to encounter problems so that the solution you find becomes the thing that opens up so much more afterwards. So whatever you’re going through, if you can be in a more open and receptive like, okay, I may not understand this. But I’m open to seeing what all this is about. And I know there’s a way through this.