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Episode 141: The Most Unlikely Sales Advice You’ve Ever Heard (and Why it Matters)

Episode 141: The Most Unlikely Sales Advice You’ve Ever Heard (and Why it Matters)

Hello, and welcome to today’s episode of The Born to Rise podcast. I’m your host, Cait Scudder. And today my loves we are talking all about sales, specifically, probably some sales advice that you have not been hearing anywhere else in the industry. I am really excited to dive into this conversation with you because I think that sales and selling can feel really overwhelming for people we’re told, you know, do it this marketing way lean back, talk about your offer all the time. Don’t be pushy, follow up, don’t follow up. And it’s like, it can be really freaking confusing for people. What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to do it? So let me just tell you this episode is not me telling you what to do and how to do it and you can sell however she hell you want. What this episode is, is an invitation for you to examine yourself, for you to look at specifically, the way in which your behavior, beliefs and behavior I should say, may very well be drastically impacting your revenue. So without further ado, we’re gonna dive in. This is a conversation I’m so freaking passionate about this. As a side note, this is not related to the episode but I want to remind you that when you are feeling the magic, when you are feeling lit up when you are feeling a transmission moving through you, I say to my clients all the time, record it, capture it, do not let it pass you by do not put it down on a to do list, kick it down the line feel like I gotta fit this in later. No press record, even if your hair is not washed, even if you’re on day five hair, even if you’re post workout, get it done, because your transmissions are going to be so much more fire when you are really lit about what you’re talking about.

Okay, my love’s we are talking today about a single piece of unconventional sales advice that is going to radically change your revenue this year. I am very much not a fan of unsubstantiated claims, money guaranteed like, okay, so this is not a money guarantee. But it kind of is I literally will bet you if you implement what I’m going to teach you today, what we’re going to talk about today, if you look at the end of 2022. And you remember this live stream, you remember this episode, you remember this moment and you implement what I am talking about today, I guarantee you, you will make more money, and you will feel a lot better than if you did not implement this. This is really super important. Today, I’m going to give you one piece of unconventional sales advice that I am pretty sure you’re not hearing anywhere else in the industry. That is going to make a huge impact on the way that you conduct your sales on the way that you approach your launches, on the way that you relate to clients whether that is in your DMS, whether that is on sales calls, no matter how it is you’re selling okay, this is not a do sales this way to become a millionaire. There are so many different ways to sell, I sell in all different sorts of formats.

This is not a you have to do it this way. This is about a singular transmission that is going to change your relationship with the process of selling with the process of being in the relationship with another human being many other human beings as you conduct a transaction. Are you ready for it? I’m going to break this down for you and really clear terms. I don’t usually have notes as I do a live stream but I do today because I want you to get this I really want you to anchor this, okay. If you want to radically make your sales process easier, smoother, more magnetic, more abundant. You want to amplify the total reach and revenue of your launches. You want to show up online and find that every single time that you open your DMS there’s a new lead, there’s a new person, there’s somebody else who is interested in working with you. You want to start to feel rather than anxiety and contraction around selling around being in your DMS around talking to people about your offers that you feel expansive, open, like you can breathe. You want to change your relationship with sales? I want you to look at your attachment style. I’m gonna say that again, you might be like, Wait, what did she just say? I’m not a therapist, I’m just gonna say that done a lot of therapy done a lot of therapy. But I’m not a therapist. If you want to radically transform your relationship with sales, with money, with momentum with how launching feels, with how selling any program or product fields, I want you to look at your attachment style.

Specifically, I want you to look at all of the ways in which your emotional defense systems, all the mechanisms that you operate by subconsciously, not even that you’re thinking about on the day to day, but all of the ways in which you try to keep yourself safe from feeling vulnerable, from feeling out of control from feeling unworthy from feeling nervous, scared, in relation to other people. I want you to examine the ways in which that is creeping up in your sales process. Now, for anybody who’s like, I don’t know what an attachment style is. That is, okay, I’m going to talk through this.

What is an attachment style?

Basically, your attachment style is how secure or insecure you feel in relating to another person. And it goes back to like early early childhood development, how we form bonds and attachments with our parents. These are the conversations that I find myself having at the highest level. This is actually this episode is inspired by a conversation that I was having inside of seven sisters, one of my highest level masterminds, my inner circle mastermind last week or the week before. And it is so fascinating because this is a theme that has emerged really for I would say a year in my career and coaching women at a very, very high level. The way we transform our relationship with sales, is by understanding our attachment style, and the way in which our attachment style is impacting our ability to fully show up a clear open channel for soulmate clients to come in. For money to come in for selling to feel joyful is full, like the most natural extension of being who you are. When we have an anxious attachment style, an anxious attachment style that is like I’m nervous, I’m scared you’re going to go away. So I’m going to be really clingy, really needy kind of suffocating, like, what it sounds like anxious, right? That anxiety causes us to clean. The way that this might show up. And I want you to I’m going to go through these and I want you to share with me in the comments, what feels like it does best describes you.

Okay, the way an anxious attachment style can play out when we are in the process of selling. When we are in the process of launching, it can look like refreshing our phone 100,000 times it can look like constantly checking our DMs like did that person reply yet? Oh, I wonder if they responded? Have they seen my message? Oh my god, it Mark seen and she has a green dot next to her name. Maybe she’s been online? Does she hate me? Does she hate the offer? Maybe she’s not going to buy? What is she going to do? If I’m not going to buy like, Okay, you get the idea. That’s anxious attachment. Right? So all of the ways when we’re selling, that can also look like checking your email open rates 100 times refresh, refresh refresh, we are consumed with this energy of anxiety. Okay, we are consumed with this and where does that come from? Like what is actually happening that can cause us to go into overdrive. So we can either be like behind the scenes refreshing.

Or we can and this might seem healthier, we can take and channel all of that anxiety, to showing up, you know, 45 times a day. And doing a live stream doing this sending an email and do it like being in this energy of a ton of push. And let’s just say if any of us have been the recipient of male attention taking this concept and applying it to the dating phase, where it’s like all push that can cause us to really kind of zoom it right back right? When we are anxious attachment, that especially for people who are more avoidant attachment can cause people to really withdraw. So be aware where the emotional response and we do this not because we’re bad people, people who are anxious attachment style. We’re not bad people. Those people just have an underlying emotional insecurity of this isn’t safe. This launch isn’t going to go well. I’m not going to sell as many programs as I want. So I’m going to try to cling to the person to the people to the leads to the to the conversation to the warm leads to the person in my DMs gonna clean that energy is really not attractive right the alternative is an avoidant attachment style.

Following up in a heart-centered way

I think is so interesting and I see this particularly because it’s very like trendy in the industry right now to be like don’t follow up just do the feminine thing of like putting it out being magnetic letting them come to you don’t follow up personally and this is a separate conversation my feelings are a follow up you can listen to my podcast episode follow up as feminine. I am such a fan of follow up follow up to be done in a heart centered way needs to be completely devoid of any kind of need for that person to make any decision one way it needs to be from heart from I’m here committed but not attached. That’s another conversation. You can go listen to the follow up his feminine episode if you want my full transmission on that it is powerful.

The question isn’t actually follow up or not follow up the question is what is the energetic quality that you are bringing to the table? What is the energetic quality that you are bringing to the sale if you have an avoidant attachment style and I see this particularly among my high powered very high achieving entrepreneurs, women who have hit six and multiple six figure launches, who are running high multiple six, seven figure businesses, we can easily fall into the avoidant attachment style as it relates to selling and launching. What that can look like is say, you know, my goal is 20. But I’ll be uh, you know, whatever the number is fine. I don’t really care. Like I’d be happy with 10 I’d be happy with whatever, it’s fine. Or yeah, I have those leads in my inbox. But I you know, they should just get over it and just make a decision and convert, I’m not going to lean in, I’m not going to do the work. What’s going on there really, there is some sort of potentially a belief, a block a story that leaning in, is somehow wrong or bad again, I think there’s a lot of noise in the industry right now that makes people doubt themselves doubt their own instinct, their own intuition.

Why relationships are at the heart of sales

The heartbeat of sales, you guys is about relationship. So anything that gets in the way, any sort of maladaptive attachment style that is getting in the way of you being in a relationship, you being in the conversation, with ease with genuineness, anything that is preventing you from doing that is hindering your sales process. avoidant attachment says, I’m I’m out, I’m either out because I’m telling myself that this goal doesn’t matter to me. So I’m pulling back, or I am not showing my face in a launch. I’m not letting myself be seen because my audience should just buy for me, right? We can fall into that trap of feeling resentful of our audiences, when they’re not buying if we’re in a launcher for selling. But we feel this weird, like entitlement of I shouldn’t show up, I shouldn’t have to, they should just lean to me. This sort of like, you know, it’s like the leaned back feminine with a with kind of a bitchy attitude of like, Come to me. And that isn’t magnetism. That is something else. Right? So this avoidant attachment style can cause us to push our goal away, or set a goal that is under what we say we want. And the reason that we do that is because we’re afraid of not hitting it, it is so much easier to not actually go say that we are not going all in we’re not going all the way for what we said we wanted.

Because then if we don’t hit our target number, if we don’t get 20 people in the launch, or in the program, or we don’t, you know, close 100k in sales for the month or whatever. If we don’t hit that number, avoidant attachment says, well, I’d already said it didn’t matter to me. So that can’t hurt me now. I don’t feel I don’t feel bad because I’ve protected myself. Is this making sense? Are you guys hearing this? Can you notice your own patterning with this? Can you notice the way in which you have either close to I got to have this, I have to refresh all the time I have to be in, you know, this overdrive, clinging to the outcome, or I have to push the outcome away, tell myself it doesn’t matter. Just kind of let go. Because if I do that, then my ego can say I didn’t really care. I didn’t really try so it’s fine. Both of those strategies. Get us nowhere. Both of those strategies don’t actually move us towards what we say that we want. What we actually desire, which is an essential sales process.

Then there’s avoidant attachment. Right. Avoidant attachment is kind of like the worst of both worlds. We vacillate between both, right we can do the like, scroll Check, check, check, check, check. And like be so anxiously wound up and what’s going to happen while also being like, I’m not going to you know, really want to come to me they can come to me and just be in that kind of little bit bitchy a little bit entitled a little bit, but it’s all about protection my love’s so if you have done this personally professionally, in your business in your sales process in your launching and your follow up, if you have done any of this, this is not about you have done it wrong. You have not this is not about you have made a mistake, this is not about you are broken and you need fixing that is not what this is about. You are whole you are complete. You are a human being with an emotional landscape, and patterning and just like all of us, okay, but what this is about is cultivating self awareness.

Why achieving emotional safety isn’t helping you or your clients

As a leader first and foremost, before you are a coach before you are a CEO, as a leader, as a woman who leads others as a woman who assures somebody through a process of transformation, and that transformation starts in the sales process. Again, it doesn’t matter whether you sell in the DMS you sell via sales call this isn’t about tactic This is about the process. And it starts with how you interact how you show up.If you are consuming yourself with keep with constructing an emotional wall of safety, by being avoidant by pushing your goal away by telling yourself it doesn’t really matter. If you are trying to achieve emotional safety, and a feeling of significance of feeling of worthiness by refreshing every two minutes. Following up with a bunch of you know, an energy of kind of fanaticism. You are not helping yourself and you are not helping you with clients. What we want to move towards. Again, before you do anything before you before you go about changing the way that you are the format in which you sell. I want you to take a honest good hard look at how you are being internally and setting up a secure attachment with your launch setting up a secure attachment with your revenue goals.

Setting a secure attachment with your worthiness Can you hear me setting a secure attachment with your worthiness because I will tell you, when you follow up with somebody with the energy of I am, I’m so here for this conversation I am, I am in I am committed to you. And I’m also not attached to you joining I am in this sales call. I’m so committed to you being in this program. If this is a match, if this is where you want to be, and I am not attached to needing you then we are embodying both qualities of the masculine the presence, the drops in this the availability the emotional stability, and also the feminine of the ease the leaned back that I don’t need anything from you I am here to give to you I am here in overflow. That is when sales starts to take off through the roof. This joint quality is the quality of magnetism when it comes to sales is being able to but it takes an extraordinary amount of emotional regulation, emotional self awareness, secure attachment with who we are and how worthy we are. It’s it’s so backwards, right? Because our ego tries to do all of this stuff, avoid attach, anxious to do to try to feel safe.

Our work as leaders, as leaders who sell services, products, programs coaching is to remind ourselves that we are always safe. We are always infinitely worthy. We are literally swimming like cosmic fish and a ginormous pool of overflow and abundance. The universe is wildly generative. It is wildly supportive. There is a constant steady stream of clients who need your work always. How would you show up to selling if you believed that if you were so secure in that belief that you didn’t have to cling? You didn’t have to? You didn’t have to white knuckle your way through every sale. It didn’t have to feel like you. Your holding your breath in your DMS with every person that you were trying to sell to. And it also didn’t feel like every time you lost you did this thing of like detaching, but in a weird way that made you emotionally checked out of the launch, what would it be like to give yourself fully to whatever it was that you were selling to acknowledge that the desire is there, that your presence is there that you are 100% in for this, and also, to not feel so attached to the outcome that you shaded yourself?

How attachment can actively play out to strip the armor away

Now, I’m going to share a story with you about how this translates in business. I mean, they I see this in hundreds of different ways. I was just talking to a client about this. And she was noticing like, hmm, I think I have an emotional wall up around this launch, I’m telling myself, that I’m maxed out on telling myself that I’m done. But what’s actually going on is I’m afraid I’m not going to hit my lunch number. So I’m checking myself out early. It’s almost like breaking up with a guy before he can break up with you. Right? It’s like, we want to feel like we were in control of the negative situation. The negative situation didn’t happen to us, we did it. But really, we just want the thing that we want. We want the epic relationship, we want the sold out lunch. Why does it feel so hard to let ourselves want what we want clear eyed, clear connection, no emotional armory, blocking us.

I want you to look at how this attachment can play out and actively work to strip it away, stripped the armor away so that you can show up to the people in your DMS to the people in your sales calls to the people in your audience to the people who want to buy from you. But in order to buy from you, they need to feel you they need to feel connection with you. They need to feel dropped in with you. I had an experience recently where this was last week or the week before, where a beautiful client of mine who was a past client, she and I worked together in 2021. In early 2021, she applied for the rise mastermind wanted to join, we had a beautiful call she filled out an application. She was just like a full energetic resonance. Yes. And she was like, I need a day like totally fine. Take it I don’t need you know, anxious attachment says, give me the details over the phone. Otherwise, it’s not gonna happen. Um, avoidant attachment says, Yeah, it’s fine. Just take your time, whatever, I don’t care. So she took she took her time, came back to me and was like, Cait, I know I want to do this. I know I need this. I’m just I’m just not ready for it. And anyway, without going into too much detail. And I was bummed, I’ll be honest with you, I was a little bit bummed because I was like, this woman is like such an epic fit. It’s such like such a no brainer.

But she is a sovereign being. And she gets to make her own decisions. And so you do you, I just I let it go. I was there I was present I was fully available. It seems that she had made her decision, I offered her really powerful reflection, and then I just let it go and I detached and a few days later, wouldn’t you know that she messages me out of the blue, and is like Cait, you’re gonna crack up, I just, I needed to do this process of like, walk around, see outside, and, like entertain the idea of No, entertain and stare down the barrel of a year of not having the support. I needed that kind of freedom to realize this, there’s nowhere else I would rather be I’m in like signed the contract and paid straight away. I share this with you because if I had either an anxious attachment of like, needing to convince her needing to strong arm her needing to overcome her like she would have gone running in the other direction. If similarly, I was like, what Red Alert? This is a nightmare client, not willing to jump in, you know, let and energetically and emotionally pushed her away and made her bad. And said, yep, evidence of why I would never want to work with you, which a lot of coaches do, right? Somebody says no to us. And we’re like, oh, I dodged a bullet that was a nightmare. Or maybe they’re just like going through a little process? Can you give them enough space? Can you be secure in your ability to generate money? Can you be secure in your power, your relevancy, your potency as a coach? Can you be secure in your knowing that there is an infinity of money and clients and flow available to you at all times? Can you be secure in that? And if you can, how would you respond?

You would respond in the same way that you love which is holding lightly. Right? You are free. You are a free agent. You can go you can fly you can do whatever you want. There’s nothing more magnetic and attractive than not, and this goes for relationships. And it also, which is why we’re talking about attachment style when we’re talking about sales, but it also goes for sales and selling. Can you be in, invested, present, anchored dropped in, and also not attached, not needing not clinging. This is the sweet spot when it comes to sales, I see this false dichotomy in the online space, this false dichotomy of masculine or feminine, you know, leaned back or saw luck, like, and I’m like, we’re having the wrong conversation. It’s not actually about any of that what it is about is a clear access to your full self without emotional barriers up, because both men and women are in for us women like both our internal masculine and our internal feminine, both of them have very clever, very intricate defense mechanisms to protect us from feeling unsafe, to protect us from feeling vulnerable, to protect us from feeling unworthy, rejected, right? Rejection is a huge thing when it comes to sales.

What if you were secure in your own power, potential, and wealth?

What if you knew that there was no actual way for you to be rejected because you had yourself because you were so secure In your own power, your own potential, your own wealth, and I’m talking about power in, you know, I think a lot of people feel like, if I don’t close that client, I’m sure if I don’t hit this number in a launch, I’m losing favor in the space, my people aren’t going to trust me, I’m going to not be seen as credible anymore. All of this is rubbish, you’re giving your power to a freaking number. And I think we also can start to feel like if I, if I don’t prove myself, if I don’t, or if somebody rejects me, if somebody doesn’t sign on, then I must have lost my touch, I must not be magnetic, nobody wants to work with me anymore. If we’re going down, and we let our mindset spiral in that way, you guys we have already lost. Because we are not secure. In our own anchor, we are not secure in our own process. This is something that when you pay attention to how you feel in any sales process, and you can start to work on this and bring attention to this before you even launch. Do it as you’re writing your sales page or your briefing your copywriter to write your sales page, do it as you’re formulating your new offer. Do it as you go live on your videos or record your episodes or whatever marketing you’re doing. Pay attention to what you are needing. Or you pay attention also.

Okay, so in the marketing part of your selling process, and in the like, closing part of your selling process, the conversations that you’re having in the DMs, the sales calls that you’re having, are you clinging? Are you pushing the other person away? Are you pushing the number that you really want away, you’re gripping so tight to it that it can’t breathe? What does it look like to find that beautiful happy medium, where you are leaned in, you are invested, you are committed energetically to holding that person to walking with them to you know, giving them that call to rise. And you also are not pushing them in any way. You’re there, you’re present, you’re available. And they get to make their free choices.

And I promise you because I see this in my own business all of the time. And I see this with my clients when they become aware of the ways in which their own avoidant attachment style is causing them to lower their goals, because it’s making them feel safer, or the way that their desire to hit a number is causing them to have an energetic of fanaticism that is actually slowing the result that they want. When we can make these fine tune energetic adjustments and execute accordingly. It is literally like magic. Clients all of a sudden feel a resonance, they feel a frequency shift inside of you that causes it to be easy to say yes. I feel that this conversation is one that is not happening enough in the online space, the ways in which our own frequency is impacting, in a very internal frequency a very subtle frequency is drastically impacting the external results, the visible financial metrics.

I want to encourage you it’s so true to really take note of this how do I become aware of these or how do I make these energetic shifts? The first step is always awareness. Are you anxious or attached? Are you some ping pong the combination of both examine how and you can literally do this by making a list. How is that impacting the way that you’re showing up? Is it causing you to? Is it causing you to, you know, pull back from your goals as a way of telling yourself? No, I didn’t really want that anyway, or, no, I didn’t, you know, I probably didn’t want to work with her anyway, or whatever the thing may be.

Notice the ways in which your avoidant attachment style or your anxious attachment style is causing you to alter your behavior in a sales setting. And then ask yourself, what would a secure attachment A secure emotional center? How would that cause me to do this differently? It can literally be that simple. Slow down enough, get observant. Notice the ways in which your own emotional state is impacting how you are selling. Be really honest with yourself, and then say, what would it look like to be all in to be committed, but not attached? I guarantee you, you’re going to show your face more in a launch. When you do that, I guarantee you that you are going to feel so much more empowered in in your center in your body, in your heart space, when you follow up with someone in the DMS, not in your head saying, Should I be following up? Should I not like the monkey brain, you are going to start to notice a tangible shift. So awareness, asking a high quality question, which is what does a secure attachment sound no armor, no spikes? No running away? None of that? What does it look like to shift my behavior and then to actually go and modify your behavior.

That’s it. That’s as simple as it needs to be. So I want to encourage you guys, whether you are getting ready for a launch, you are in a launch, this is also a particularly interesting one to be aware of when you are in a launch. I always love this, like when you’re in a launch. I mean, a launch is a whole roller coaster, I said to a client the other day, who’s hit a launch, it’s like riding the waves of the roller coaster. I’m like it’s a whole amusement park launching. It’s not just a roller coaster. It’s the whole park, right? Be aware of how avoidant attachment comes up, especially in the dip right we’ve got like cart open people buy early action bonus, whatever, then there’s like a little bit of a dip, then some people get in at the end notice the way that your mind starts to go nutso in the depth starts to do either the anxious thing refresh refresh refresh follow up a little follow up in the energy of fanaticism right, the attached energy in a non helpful way. Or you know at find whatever I mean, I’m happy with the number I don’t care whatever, avoided checking out going somewhere else, what would it be like to stay?

Why you’re worthy despite what any number says

So use your awareness, cultivate some curiosity, ask yourself what would it be like to be so present secure, stable, in my actual desire and to follow up to execute to do the all the actions all the masculine outward things in the launch from the energy of that core grounded rooted internal sense of safety. I literally will guarantee you that you are going to make money this year. And a lot of if you execute this one shift. Let your awareness of your attachment style and how it impacts your relationship with selling your relationship with how worthy you feel based on a number you hit or don’t hit. Let it shift you. You are worthy no matter what the fucking number is you are worthy No money. No matter how many people are in your program. You are worthy no matter if you make $10 This month or $10 million this month, you are worthy. And the woman who knows that will radically amplify her wealth at astronomical rates.

I would love to hear from you guys if this episode resonated with you if it landed with you what your biggest takeaway was in the comments. If you are listening to this as a podcast episode, you can share it I would love for you to share it on your stories and let me know and share with me there. And I’m so happy that you’re here. I’m so happy that you’re here. I’m happy that you’re interested in this conversation because it means you are doing the deep inner work not just the tactic-ey bro stuff on the surface of selling but the inner work, the leadership work that actual sales come from if you are interested in learning more about opportunities to work together.

I’m so excited my team and I are going to be dropping some details about an upcoming masterclass happening next week that you are going to flip your shit over the branding is shit hot but the substance Oh my gosh, the substance you guys, I’m, I’m freaking out. I’m so excited to lead this. I also have a couple of really super expansive and exciting opportunities to work together, more in depth, more long term, I send me a DM, I’ll get you the details how to sign up. There’s pre pre pre sale pricing, that’s like the URL, you know, we’re only doing this week. And then once we actually start selling it, it’s going up, send me DM, I’m gonna send you the branding. It’s fucking incredible. It’s so good. Um, but yes, I was saying if you want to journey together in a deeper way, I would love to have you of course for the masterclass.

But if you are feeling the resonance to journey together in a deeper way to have support in longevity and someone to walk by your side, as you expand and grow your business, send me a DM there are a couple of containers with openings right now for a longer extended journey. And I am just beyond blown away. The women in my world just astound me on the day to day adjusted some stories before this of client winds that are just blowing my mind. And it’s the women who step in who say yes, who trust themselves, who are responding to the exact frequency I’m talking about of being who feel like I’m here, I’m in this, I’m so ready to walk with you and you step through the door. I’m not going to chase you I’m not going to continue on. That’s not happening. But I’m also not going to run away. Because I’m trying to protect myself, I want you to know I’m here. So if that speaks to you, and you are ready to be held to be supported to walk not only with a mentor but with sisters. Through an epic experience, I invite you to send me a DM to explore which of the options is going to be the best fit for you. And I am so excited for everything that’s coming. I love you guys, thank you so much for being here so much for being present. You can send me a DM if you’re curious to explore. I love you all. I’ll see you soon.

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Hey, I'm Cait!

Boss mama, wife, and 7-figure CEO empowering women to build profitable, purpose-driven businesses that change the world.


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